TPF : Agnosticism

A place for discussion of ideas presented in the BothAndBlog, or relevant to the Enformationism thesis.
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Gnomon
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Re: TPF : Agnosticism

Post by Gnomon » Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:06 pm

Would I be correct if I were to say that your metaphysics (ontology, etc.) is grounded in epistemology (information/knowledge)? — Agent Smith

Yes. But I have no formal training in those fields of philosophy. Enformationism is a sort of Cosmology, which generally explains the nature of Nature (Being) in terms of Information Theory (IT) and Quantum Physics (QP). IT defines what & how we can know, and QP reveals that the foundation of material reality is immaterial logical relationships. Everything else (e.g. Ethics) depends on the understanding that everything in the world is a form of Generic Information (energy + matter + mind). The thesis website says that Enformationism is intended to be an update to the ancient worldviews of Materialism (Atomism) and Spiritualism (Mind = Soul). Just as Quantum Theory does not negate Newtonian physics, but puts it in a larger context, the Information-Centric worldview does not replace Reductive Science or Holistic Religion, but merely looks at them from a different perspective.

For example, Materialism still works for Chemistry, and Spiritualism still works for Sociology. For example, William James said “We must judge the tree by its fruit. The best fruits of the religious experience are the best things history has to offer. The highest flights of charity, devotion, trust, patience, and bravery to which the wings of human nature have spread themselves, have all been flown for religious ideals.” (e.g. Gothic Cathedrals ; charities) For collective endeavors, people are inspired by beliefs that may or may not be empirically true, but plausible enough to motive them to work together for the common good (God, community, humanity). But Enformationism puts those beliefs into a new light, for those inclined to look in dark corners.

Speaking of different perspectives, in a previous post you mentioned "virtual worlds". And I just read an article on one kind of virtual reality : a computer simulation (see below). Here's a couple of quotes that might apply to the OP topic : Agnosticism. the author mentions The Matrix and Nick Bostrum's “Are You Living in a Computer Simulation?”. Then, he concludes that "It could very well be simulations all the way down." Since he is a gamer, such a turtles-all-the-way-down solution makes more sense than the quantum-fluctuation-in-nothingness & inflating-bubble-from-nowhere theories, which make no attempt to nail-down a philosophical First Cause. So, I may be in the minority of posters who feel the need for a one-big-turtle explanation. :blush:

PS__Since my eccentric personal worldview is easy to laugh at, I have to maintain an humble sense of humor, in hopes of keeping philosophical bullies from pounding the annoying nerd. :nerd:

Of Course We’re Living in a Simulation :
"The best theory physicists have for the birth of the universe makes no sense. It goes like this: In the beginning—the very, if not quite veriest, beginning—there’s something called quantum foam. It’s barely there, and can’t even be said to occupy space, because there’s no such thing as space yet. . . . Besides, that’s not even why the theory makes no sense. It makes no sense for the same reason every creation myth since the dawn of, um, creation makes no sense: There’s no causal explanation. What, that is to say, made it happen in the first place?"
https://www.wired.com/story/living-in-a-simulation/

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Gnomon
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Re: TPF : Agnosticism

Post by Gnomon » Thu Jul 28, 2022 11:31 am

So you don't want to disturb the peace so to speak. You're happy with existing paradigms such as materialism, spiritualism, etc. and would like to preserve instead of discard/replace 'em. However, doesn't that mean your thesis makes no practical difference whether it's true/false? — Agent Smith

So to speak. I simply re-define some outdated notions, such as "Matter" & "Spirit", in terms of the Enformationism thesis. To wit, my "spiritual" family members don't like my "atheism"*1, but we get along fine as long as we don't discuss Philosophy or Salvation. For me personally, what used to be known as "Spirit" or "Soul" is merely the form of Generic Information that we know as "Mind", which is simply the "Function" of the brain (not what it is, but what it does). A Function is invisible & intangible, but is reasonable & knowable. For instance, the immaterial Function*2 of a material automobile is Transportation (potential for action, not an actual thing). Likewise, the Mind is intangible & invisible, like a Soul or Spirit. But it is not an independent agent that can roam apart from the brain. You can't separate Transportation from the Vehicle; Function from Form*3.

Similarly, Materialism is a practical way of thinking about physical objects. But, it ignores non-physical aspects of the object. For example, when a Biologist dissects a frog, it is no longer a living animal. That's because Life is a Function of biological complexity. Life is what organic bodies do. So, if you take away the (holistic) Life function of the organism, what you have left is lifeless Chemistry. Therefore, if you are a Bio-chemist, it makes "no practical difference" whether your subject is alive or not. But, if you are a Biological Naturalist, it makes a categorical difference. And as Anthropologist Gregory Bateson surmised : "information is the difference that makes a difference". Difference (1) is a physical variation, but Difference (2) is a meaningful (metaphysical) distinction.

So yes, those old paradigms still have their role in human society. But, for philosophers, Quantum & Information theories have revealed that the foundation of Classical Science is built upon nothing of substance, except Generic shape-shifting Information (energy-matter-mind). And that makes all the difference in the world. As Einstein showed us, "all things are relative". What's "true" in one context may not be true from another perspective.


*1. For Christians, Agnosticism is just a wishy-washy form of Atheism. It avoids commitment one way or the other. But for me, "Agnosticism" simply means "I don't know". If something is invisible, I don't see it (a-blepo ; Gk "to not see"). But I may imagine something not seen : (Gk. eidos ;to imagine). Believers in the unseen God, know the deity by Faith, by imagination. In a similar manner, I can imagine a pre-big-bang First Cause, even though it does not exist in the physical world of vision. Yet, I remain Agnostic, because my imagination is not verifiable.

*2. A Function is an information relationship between things that is known only by Reason, not by Vision. Function is integral to Form, in that it is an essential aspect of all complex systems. Function is the immaterial part of a physical thing by which we know its role or relationship to the observer. For me, the role of my silver SUV is Transportation. For someone else, the essence of their red sports car is to serve as a chick-magnet.

*3. For Scientists & Builders In the real world, "Function follows Form". But for a Designer, Enformer, Creator , Form (physical arrangement) follows Function (intention ; output ; teleology).

Quantum paradox points to shaky foundations of reality :
https://www.science.org/content/article ... ns-reality
23 hours ago

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