TPF : The First Concept

[Gnomon]

↪Gregory
↪ucarr
↪tim wood
↪Alkis Piskas

If you want to continue the never-ending dialog about First Causes, please go back to the
A first cause is logically necessary thread : https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... cessary/p1

The topic of this thread is First Concept --- the original idea in a chain of material transformations --- which for the purposes of the OP, presumably occurred somewhere in the middle of the cosmic chain of causation, . . . . . . or perhaps at some point prior to the First Cause. ironic smilie

[Gnomon]

The first idea in the mind of primitive man would have been the first concept. Impossible to narrow down from there. — jgill

Of course, in the absence of empirical evidence*1, it's scientifically impossible to specify the origin of ideas. But this is a philosophical forum, so I'm looking for informed speculations on how that emergence of sentience might have been possible in a world of evolving material forms & species. And I don't limit concepts to humans : animals may have pre-verbal ideas that they express behaviorally. Or to animals with brains : some brainless flatworms seem to have intentional behavior. No judging in this thread. Give it a free shot.

*1. Fossilization of brain, or other soft tissue, is possible however, and scientists can infer that the first brain structure appeared at least 521 million years ago, with fossil brain tissue present in sites of exceptional preservation. ____Wikipedia

[Gnomon]

I know that. But it is you who asked for empirical evidence (Re: "Where's the empirical evidence for Infinity?") ! — Alkis Piskas

I assumed you would know that was a rhetorical question.

Why, are there real First Causes? What are they? — Alkis Piskas

I'll ignore that off-topic question.

I said that I don't know what do you mean by "First Concept". But you didn't bother explaining to me, or give me some example. — Alkis Piskas

I didn't define the topical term because I was hoping to avoid putting my preconceptions in your head. Why don't you describe what you would mean by "First Concept"? This is an open forum. Is free speech "torture" for you?

[Gnomon]

If the underlined above are your essential focal points for this conversation, I'm struggling to see why it isn't chiefly a scientific inquiry within evolutionary biology rather than a philosophical inquiry within theory of consciousness.
Are you not examining emergence of mind from matter? Is not this the focus as opposed to examining the structure and functioning of cognition once emergent? — ucarr

I was intentionally a bit vague in my title and OP, in order to avoid putting my pre-conceptions into impressionable minds. But, I did give you a hint. Please feel free to define your notion of First Concept any way you like. I'm assuming that nobody knows for sure, so there are no wrong answers.

This is a philosophy forum, so empirical evidence is not necessary. But relevant scientific data is welcome. You can describe the first-of-its-kind event as you see fit : material, physical, metaphysical, accidental, intentional, magical, etc.

PS__I Googled "first concept" and mostly got marketing links.

[Gnomon]

You are right. The discussions on the subject of First Cause can go forever. As those about the concept of time and a lot more. — Alkis Piskas

That's why I started this spin-off from the depleted First Cause thread. But most respondents, so far, seem to have missed the point of this new thread : to discuss, not the First Cause, but a mid-evolution Effect : the origin of Consciousness in an ever-changing physical world. Perhaps I should have titled the thread : "Origin of Consciousness", but "First Concept" seemed to be more to the point.

Panpsychism*1 & Idealism assume that Consciousness was inherent in the world, from the beginning or from eternity, whichever came first. However, "First Concept" is not about chatty atoms, but about the early signs of self-aware mentation in the only animals we know have language to discuss abstract concepts.

Materialism*2 also assumes that the potential for Consciousness is inherent in the natural world, but not in the form of a supernatural God or Cosmic Mind or sentient Atoms. If so, what was the fundamental form of matter that produced thinking beings?

With these essential problems in mind, I was hoping to stimulate a discussion on how both of those presumptions might explain the eventual evolutionary emergence of abstract conceptualizers, such as posters on TPF could have evolved from nothingness or from eternal matter. For Panpsychism the crux would be the Combination Problem*3. For Materialism, the key issue might be what form proto-consciousness might take in evolution of Consciousness*4.

Do you have any ideas to contribute to a forum of mostly amateur philosophers with varying degrees of scientific background? There may be other sub-categories of Consciousness theories, but they would seem to boil down to primacy : fundamental Mind versus elemental Matter. Thoughts?


*1. Panpsychism is the idea that consciousness did not evolve to meet some survival need, nor did it emerge when brains became sufficiently complex. Instead it is inherent in matter — all matter.
https://www.discovermagazine.com/mind/p ... cycles-are

*2. Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds that matter is the fundamental substance in nature, and that all things, including mental states and consciousness, are results of material interactions of material things.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materialism

*3. Combination Problem :
Nevertheless, panpsychism is subject to a major challenge: the combination problem. This is
roughly the question: how do the experiences of fundamental physical entities such as quarks and photons combine to yield the familiar sort of human conscious experience that we know and love.
https://consc.net/papers/combination.pdf

*4. Can Materialism Explain the Mind? :
Nevertheless, in the eyes of many philosophers of mind, materialism has now reached an insurmountable quandary in the question of consciousness. . . . Physicalist theories that attempt to explain mental states include eliminative materialism, behaviorism, identity theory, and functionalism.
https://renovatio.zaytuna.edu/article/c ... n-the-mind

↪Gregory
↪ucarr
↪tim wood
↪Lionino