Phil Forum : Consciousness a Feeling?

[Gnomon]

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... ng-else/p3

one would also think that a whole can only be expressed as a Whole in a holistic way. Consciousness solved! — PoeticUniverse
Irony or Sarcasm or Tautology?

Or it is that the Boss has no doing associated with it, per Koch, and the nonconscious guys continue to attend to the goings on by voting or whatnot. — PoeticUniverse

My personal interpretation of Koch's IIT Consciousness --- in view of Dennett's "Multiple Drafts" model and Minsky's "Society of Mind" --- is that 98% of human behavior is carried-out by subconscious automatic instinctive & Intuitive processes. Which leaves only the most important 2% of decisions for the the CEO (the Conscious Whole) to approve or veto. It's only that final say-so (judgment) that we can truly call Free Will. At best, we are absentee (golf-course) executives. Otherwise, we are all philosophical zombies.

If you are a zombie, you're an exceptionally insightful automaton.


Multiple Drafts : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness_Explained

Society of Mind : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_Mind

PS__The weak point of these subconscious mind theories is "what to do in case of a tied vote by the underlings?" Do nothing, or kick it upstairs to the boss? Those who get emotionally tied-in-knots are acting irrationally. Rare rational thinkers make an executive or judicial decision and move-on.

[Gnomon]

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... ent/351417

Having read and agreed with radical biologist Rupert Sheldake, whose views, I'd say, coinicide with Idealism, — Chris Hughes

FWIW, I just came across an old blog post that specifically addresses the differences between Sheldrake's Morphogenesis theory and my own theory of Enformationism.

Morphogenesis and Enformationism : http://bothandblog2.enformationism.info/page55.html

Paul Davies on Morphogenesis : http://bothandblog6.enformationism.info/page8.html

[Gnomon]

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... ent/351417

Selection determinator can be passive and inanimate against some dynamics, like A shaped roof selects which raindrops go to one or the other side. So evolutionary selector can be amount of light, heat, acidity... stuff like that. — Zelebg

Yes. The selection criteria for evolution are encoded in the universal laws of Math/Logic/Physics and in the Initial Conditions. So the geometric shape of a roof can passively divide random raindrops into two categories, which will determine the future direction of flow. But the "intention" I mentioned was in the mind of the encoder/programmer, who tilted the playing field in order to influence the outcome without presetting all the intermediate details. Thus, allowing a degree of freedom within determinism.

That's why, in my thesis, the creative act occurred before the Big Bang beginning, but the creative process of Evolution is still underway. Since we humans find ourselves in the middle of the journey, and our understanding is limited by the time/light horizon, we can infer the intended end-state only by looking in the direction of Time's Arrow. But the fact that there is a direction (tendency) in Nature indicates that there was conscious intention in the mind of the pool shooter (Programmer), who aimed the cue stick, and then allowed physics to guide the ball to the selected pocket.

[Gnomon]

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... ent/351417

It's physically based and so is not floating around as an 'All' or such. Koch adds in a footnote that it is intrinsic in the sense of being internal, but not in the sense of something like mass — PoeticUniverse

Yes. My personal consciousness is intrinsic to my body as a holon. But Cosmic Consciousness of the ALL is intrinsic to the universe as a whole. In my thesis, the physical universe is analogous to the fleshly body of a conscious human. But the quality of consciousness is not located in any part of the world. So, you could say that it's "floating around" out there in the great beyond. In other words, immaterial Consciousness is non-local.

With all the thinking/doing of the brain areas already done and finished and represented as qualia, sequential consciousness is too late in the cycle to do any conscious thinking of its own, but the cycle continues… — PoeticUniverse

If you are referring to the time gap between intention and action as determined by Benjamin Libet, his results can be interpreted as allowing time for an intentional veto. Thus, retaining a role for agency in the ongoing cycle of life.

" Libet's results thus cannot be interpreted to provide empirical evidence in favour of agency reductionism, "
"Daniel Dennett argues that no clear conclusion about volition can be derived from Libet's experiment because of ambiguities in the timings of the different events involved."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Libet

[Gnomon]

So perhaps consciousness, as well as being how we see the world, is what the world, the multiverse, is made of: the unifying field, full of meaning, as in our Goldilocks planet - and the non-random appearance of DNA. — Chris Hughes

Yes. My worldview is similar to Panpsychism, but I prefer to use the abstract term "Information" in reference to the enformed structure of the world, in place of "Consciousness" or "Psyche". That's because some people imagine that rocks & atoms are conscious in the same sense that humans are. Physicists sometimes speak metaphorically about a particle "feeling" a force. But they don't mean it literally.

DNA conveys information (meaning) to the degree that its structure is non-random.

[Gnomon]

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... ent/351417

However you turn it around it doesn't make sense because the real question underneath is - why is there something rather than nothing? And whatever answer goes there must seem magical to us. — Zelebg

The only reasonable answer to that fundamental question is "creation" ex nihilo. Which is why I assume that the Creator must exist eternally outside of space-time (i.e. nothingness). In Eternity, all things are possible. But in space-time only some things are actual. In the Real World creatio ex nihilo is impossible, hence magical. From our perspective in the conditional world, the Creator is a magician, capable of doing the physically impossible.

However, since I define G*D as BEING (the power to exist), creation (making things exist) is simply inherent in the job description. As PoeticUniverse noted : existence is essential, and must be taken for granted by those of us who know we exist. So, no BEING, no beings; no things. QED

[Gnomon]

Well, my consciousness depends on my brain, body, etc., else there isn't any. — PoeticUniverse

True. Consciousness is a function : no form, no function.

Also, I confess that I am an automon. — PoeticUniverse

Prove it!

[Gnomon]

The 'veto' isn't done by consciousness. — PoeticUniverse

So, you think the subconscious is a perfect democracy, with no executive to overrule the voters with a veto? Maybe you are an automaton.

[Gnomon]

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... thing-else

I like to hear any theory, but have too much to read already. Can you say anything about the actual process of materialization of those abstractions? — Zelebg

Yes. Immaterial Information (energy) transforms into concrete Matter via the process of "Phase Change". It's a well-known physical phenomenon, but still a bit mysterious without an understanding that Information (causation) is both Energy and Matter. Also, it would help to grasp the concept of "Emergence". To save you some research and reading time, the blog post below presents an overview of how Phase Transitions and Emergence are involved in the "process of materialization".

In my theory, those natural (no divine intervention) Transforming processes are also involved in the "dematerialization" of Matter into Mind (consciousness). But a complete explanation for that might try your patience.

The EnFormAction Hypothesis : http://bothandblog3.enformationism.info/page23.html

Note : Enformation is Causation; Transformation.

PS__If you need some scientific authority to back-up my personal thesis, any of the books by physicist Paul Davies will elucidate the role of Information in Physics. The latest is Information and the Nature of Reality: From Physics to Metaphysics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Davies

[Gnomon]

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... ent/352174

Perhaps a general definition of information is required which pertains to inorganic (physical), organic (biological), and semantic types of information. — Galuchat

Sure. First, here's a general definition from the Enformationism Glossary :

Information :
Knowledge and the ability to know. Technically, it's the ratio of order to disorder, of positive to negative, of knowledge to ignorance. It's measured in degrees of uncertainty. Those ratios are also called "differences". So Gregory Bateson* defined Information as "the difference that makes a difference". The latter distinction refers to "value" or "meaning". Babbage called his prototype computer a "difference engine". Difference is the cause or agent of Change. In Physics it’s called "Thermodynamics" or "Energy". In Sociology it’s called "Conflict".
http://blog-glossary.enformationism.info/page11.html

Abstract Information : the 1s & 0s of computer language. Existence = 1, Non-existence = 0

Physical Information : Energy - e.g. the ratio between Hot & Cold. Energy is the causal power of Information. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_information

Material Information : E=MC\2. Mass is Enformed Energy, and is an essential property of Matter. "the equation says that energy and mass (matter) are interchangeable; they are different forms of the same thing." https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/einstein/ ... 2expl.html

Shannon Information : The abstract ratio of One to Zero. It yields accuracy in computation, but omits any meaning or significance. Quantity without Quality.

Organic Information : Living organisms are defined and organized by their "Information Molecule", which we call DNA. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA

Semantic Information : Meaning in a conscious mind; for example the relationship between Self and Other. It can be expressed mathematically as a numerical ratio, or emotionally as a positive/negative feeling. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/info ... -semantic/

NOTE : Originally, before Shannon, the word "Information" meant that-which-Informs or educates (i.e. knowledge). Literally, it means to give definite Form to the Amorphous. Metaphorically, to create Order out of Chaos. To know; to be aware, is to be Conscious.