BothAndBlog Forum

What's the big mystery about time?
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... ent/646517

From Plato to Einstein, time has been thought of by many. Everyone knows what time is. That's why I wonder what the big mystery is. — Raymond

Actually, "Time" is like Energy. Intuitively,everybody knows what it does, but the mystery arises when you ask what it is. For scientific purposes, a thing is its substance (material). But for philosophical inquiries a process is what it causes. Like Energy, Time causes Change. But then you'll have to define that term. In the 20th century, Time was defined as the fourth dimension : a way to measure Change. But that still didn't answer what it is. So, to avoid further debate, they agreed on a metaphorical definition : Block Time. Which is equivalent to the ancient philosophical notion of unchanging Eternity. But that is not an answer to what Time consists of. So the mystery remains. Since there are so many partial definitions of Time, perhaps the best policy is : "don't worry about it, it is what it is". :joke:

BTW, what do you think it is?

PS___In my thesis, there's one tantalizing hint to what Time is : Difference. "The difference that makes a difference" is what we know as Meaning.

How can time cause change? — Raymond

Metaphorically. :joke:

think there are two kinds of times, mutually exclusive. Entropic time and perfect clock time. — Raymond

Yes. There are various ways of measuring the passage or static-state of Time. Entropy measures the dissipation of Potential Time from the beginning of the downhill stream. Clock time measures Time as a metaphorical flow, like a river. Block Time measures Time's dimensions as-if the fluid is frozen into a block of ice. And Space-Time imagines emptiness as-if it's a solid object. But all of those "measurements" are attempts to reify an abstraction via metaphorical pointers to physical things. We don't know Time via our physical senses, but only with our sixth sense of Reason, which relates one thing or state to another. Time is not Real, but Ideal, a metaphor in the mind, not a flowing river or immobile ice-cube out there. There's probably no "perfect" way to measure a shape-shifting ghost.

I think there are two kinds of times, mutually exclusive. — Raymond

Regarding the "mystery" of Time, here's a link to an article with a unique concept of "why time flies". Apparently Time is Relative, not just to Space, and personal experience, but to our empathic connection to other time voyagers.


Empathy Is a Clock That Ticks in the Consciousness of Another :
. . . Kierkegaard’s assertion that “the moment is not properly an atom of time but an atom of eternity.” Time is a social phenomenon. This property is not incidental to time; it is its essence.
https://www.themarginalian.org/2017/09/ ... s-empathy/

So, the pre-inflationary Planck cell can be compared with Aristotle's objective unmoved mover and the perfect circular motion. Our friend was ahead of his "time"! — Raymond

Yes. As in so many other philosophical quandaries, Aristotle tried to dispel mysteries -- such as Plato's "Forms" -- with practical applications. For example, a designing engineer envisions the "structure" of a future building, not as concrete beams & columns, but as abstract relationships, represented by vectors (arrows & values)

By defining Time as our perception of the sequential structure of evolving reality (order),he focused on what we are measuring : non-spatial relationships that evolve in an orderly mathematical manner. Those relationships are what I call "Information", a mental geometry, by which we measure the differences (or ratios) between Instants or Instances in terms of Meaning or Value to Self. We perceive those non-spatial ratios by Reason (rational thinking).

Aristotle claims that time is not a kind of change, but that it is something dependent on change. . . . this means that time is a kind of order (not, as is commonly supposed, that it is a kind of measure)
https://oxford.universitypressscholarsh ... 0199247905
Note -- we don't perceive Change itself, but the difference between point A and point B in a sequence --- like frames in a movie.

Information :
Knowledge and the ability to know. Technically, it's the ratio of order to disorder, of positive to negative, of knowledge to ignorance. It's measured in degrees of uncertainty. Those ratios are also called "differences". So Gregory Bateson* defined Information as "the difference that makes a difference". The latter distinction refers to "value" or "meaning". Babbage called his prototype computer a "difference engine". Difference is the cause or agent of Change. In Physics it’s called "Thermodynamics" or "Energy". In Sociology it’s called "Conflict".
BothAnd Blog Glossary

MENTAL GEOMETRY OF ABSTRACT VECTORS
https://mathinsight.org/media/image/ima ... am_law.png

How does this relate to Kant’s model of time? — Joshs

I wasn't familiar with Kant's opinion of Time. But a quick Google indicates that his Critique of Pure Reason ("which is a combination of rationalism and empiricism") treats Time & Change, not as objectively Real, but as subjectively Ideal. We imagine time by Intuition or infer it by Reason, because we can't see it with our objective empirical senses. So, we impute Time to Reality. And that's essentially what I was saying.

Kant believes that time, for us, is intuitive
https://decodedpast.com/immanuel-kant-o ... the-heart/

Impute : to represent something as being done, caused, or possessed by someone; to attribute.