TPF : Agnostic
Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 11:58 am
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... ty-of-hell
Genuine Agnosticism and the possibility of Hell
I appear to be a genuine agnostic - i.e. I am genuinely unsure as to the existence, or not, of God, or supernatural realms and life after death etc. in general. I've never seen an argument on either the atheist side or the theist side which I have found wholly convincing. This leads me to contemplate whether, given my lack of religious faith or observance, if I will be condemned to hell when I die. — RolandTyme
I call myself an Agnostic in the literal sense (ignorance of the facts), not in the "weak Atheist" sense (presumptive knowledge of absence). Based on my well-researched personal worldview, I am fairly sure that our world must have had a First Cause --- intelligent enough to create a self-developing universe from scratch, and to evolve creatures that are able to ask philosophical questions about Ontology (being) and Epistemology (knowing). Since we humans are creatures of space-time, we have no certain way of knowing what caused the Big Bang. So, as philosophers & scientists, we can only speculate using our "god-given" or "accidental" Reason.
Even most Atheists, now admit that something must have existed prior to the emergence of space-time from the Point of Origin (Multiverse : Many Worlds ; Inflaton Field, see below ). Most recycling-vs-creation scenarios assume it was simply more of the same material stuff we experience in the here & now. But, even faithful atheists will acknowledge that causal Energy & limiting Laws, are more essential than mere matter for moving & directing our evolving world. And some sober physicists have concluded that Energy is actually a causal form of General Information. So, my worldview is based on the inference that Information (mind stuff) is more fundamental than (malleable stuff). I won't go into the background of that concept here, as it has been cussed & discussed repeatedly on this forum.
If you accept that Information is the fundamental essence of our Reality, then some kind of Enformer is logically necessary to convert Potential Form into Actual forms. And if that makes sense to you, then you are halfway to belief in a God of some kind. But, which of the thousands of god-models would best qualify as the First Cause of our world. Since most ancient religious deities are described in humanoid forms or with human motives, and are obviously modeled on human political leaders, I find them to be poor candidates for the Cause of a physical emergence from almost nothing into everything knowable. Instead, I find a creative Principle, like Plato's LOGOS to be more fitting as the ultimate Enformer.
Although it's scientifically plausible, in view of 21st century Quantum & Information theories, such a rational "Philosopher's God" is not likely to inspire religious Faith. So, as philosophical thinkers, we must act upon incomplete evidence, and keep an open-mind about topics beyond our ken. As luck would have it, the ancient Agnostic attitude allows us to have a functional belief system, without committing to blind faith in the unknowable. Besides, spooky tales about a miserable or blissful afterlife, are nothing more substantial than ghost-stories & moralizing myths. Therefore, as you are philosophically inclined, you are free act as-if you believe whichever un-verifiable god-option makes sense to you. And you can worry about any uncertain imaginary afterlife you find believable, in view of your chosen god.
Agnosticism is the view or belief that the existence of God, of the divine or the supernatural is unknown or unknowable. Another definition provided is the view that "human reason is incapable of providing sufficient rational grounds to justify either the belief that God exists or the belief that God does not exist." ___Wikipedia
Is Information Fundamental? :
https://www.closertotruth.com/series/in ... undamental
Is information the only thing that exists? :
Physics suggests information is more fundamental than matter, energy, space and time
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg ... at-exists/
The Enformer :
AKA, the Creator. The presumed eternal source of all information, as encoded in the Big Bang Sing-ularity. That ability to convert conceptual Forms into actual Things, to transform infinite possibilities into finite actualities, and to create space & time, matter & energy from essentially no-thing is called the power of EnFormAction. Due to our ignorance of anything beyond space-time though, the postulated enforming agent remains undefined..
BothAnd Blog Glossary
BLOONARIUS THE INFLATOR OF WORLDS
Bloonarius%20the%20Inflator.PNG
17 hours ago
Options
Genuine Agnosticism and the possibility of Hell
I appear to be a genuine agnostic - i.e. I am genuinely unsure as to the existence, or not, of God, or supernatural realms and life after death etc. in general. I've never seen an argument on either the atheist side or the theist side which I have found wholly convincing. This leads me to contemplate whether, given my lack of religious faith or observance, if I will be condemned to hell when I die. — RolandTyme
I call myself an Agnostic in the literal sense (ignorance of the facts), not in the "weak Atheist" sense (presumptive knowledge of absence). Based on my well-researched personal worldview, I am fairly sure that our world must have had a First Cause --- intelligent enough to create a self-developing universe from scratch, and to evolve creatures that are able to ask philosophical questions about Ontology (being) and Epistemology (knowing). Since we humans are creatures of space-time, we have no certain way of knowing what caused the Big Bang. So, as philosophers & scientists, we can only speculate using our "god-given" or "accidental" Reason.
Even most Atheists, now admit that something must have existed prior to the emergence of space-time from the Point of Origin (Multiverse : Many Worlds ; Inflaton Field, see below ). Most recycling-vs-creation scenarios assume it was simply more of the same material stuff we experience in the here & now. But, even faithful atheists will acknowledge that causal Energy & limiting Laws, are more essential than mere matter for moving & directing our evolving world. And some sober physicists have concluded that Energy is actually a causal form of General Information. So, my worldview is based on the inference that Information (mind stuff) is more fundamental than (malleable stuff). I won't go into the background of that concept here, as it has been cussed & discussed repeatedly on this forum.
If you accept that Information is the fundamental essence of our Reality, then some kind of Enformer is logically necessary to convert Potential Form into Actual forms. And if that makes sense to you, then you are halfway to belief in a God of some kind. But, which of the thousands of god-models would best qualify as the First Cause of our world. Since most ancient religious deities are described in humanoid forms or with human motives, and are obviously modeled on human political leaders, I find them to be poor candidates for the Cause of a physical emergence from almost nothing into everything knowable. Instead, I find a creative Principle, like Plato's LOGOS to be more fitting as the ultimate Enformer.
Although it's scientifically plausible, in view of 21st century Quantum & Information theories, such a rational "Philosopher's God" is not likely to inspire religious Faith. So, as philosophical thinkers, we must act upon incomplete evidence, and keep an open-mind about topics beyond our ken. As luck would have it, the ancient Agnostic attitude allows us to have a functional belief system, without committing to blind faith in the unknowable. Besides, spooky tales about a miserable or blissful afterlife, are nothing more substantial than ghost-stories & moralizing myths. Therefore, as you are philosophically inclined, you are free act as-if you believe whichever un-verifiable god-option makes sense to you. And you can worry about any uncertain imaginary afterlife you find believable, in view of your chosen god.
Agnosticism is the view or belief that the existence of God, of the divine or the supernatural is unknown or unknowable. Another definition provided is the view that "human reason is incapable of providing sufficient rational grounds to justify either the belief that God exists or the belief that God does not exist." ___Wikipedia
Is Information Fundamental? :
https://www.closertotruth.com/series/in ... undamental
Is information the only thing that exists? :
Physics suggests information is more fundamental than matter, energy, space and time
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg ... at-exists/
The Enformer :
AKA, the Creator. The presumed eternal source of all information, as encoded in the Big Bang Sing-ularity. That ability to convert conceptual Forms into actual Things, to transform infinite possibilities into finite actualities, and to create space & time, matter & energy from essentially no-thing is called the power of EnFormAction. Due to our ignorance of anything beyond space-time though, the postulated enforming agent remains undefined..
BothAnd Blog Glossary
BLOONARIUS THE INFLATOR OF WORLDS
Bloonarius%20the%20Inflator.PNG
17 hours ago
Options