BothAndBlog Forum

Mathematical universe or mathematical minds?
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... l-minds/p3

If somehow evolution has equipped us with mathematical minds, it is fair to hypothesize that the "book of nature is written in the language of mathematics" just because we see it that way. — Doru B

Some thinkers assume that Nature is Mathematical (abstract values, sans meaning) while others believe that Nature is Mental (logic plus meaning). So, I suspect that the replies to your topic will divide along those lines. A purely mathematical universe just is, and must be taken for granted. That's why many scientists assume that Energy (cause) & Laws (logic) exist eternally, and need no explanation. But some scientists observe that the universe, that began from abstract Cause & Laws, has evolved animated self-aware beings with personal values & meanings. How is that possible?

I'll propose that, logically, the Potential for Awareness & Feelings must have existed, in potential, along with Causation & Organization. Over time, that Potential for both Material and Mental processes has been Actualized into physical Bodies with non-physical Minds. Why do I label Mind as non-physical (or metaphysical)? Because, the reductive sciences of humanity have not yet discovered an Atom of Mind. So, they label Mental processes as "epiphenomena", hence, not nearly as important (for practical purposes) as Physical phenomena.

As a thought experiment, which would you prefer to be : a> a phenomenal Brain in a vat, without awareness & feeling, or b> an epiphenomenal Mind in a vacuum, with sentience & sensations. Your answer will reveal which you believe to be most essential to your being. Of course, a Mind without hands cannot do anything physical. But it can imagine doing anything imaginable. So, which is more important to you : Mechanism or Imagination? :joke:

PS__How about option c> a physical body & brain plus a non-physical mind? Is that the best of all possible worlds?

Epiphenomena :
1. a secondary effect or byproduct that arises from but does not causally influence a process.
2. mental state regarded as a byproduct of brain activity.

Potential is Primary :
In physics as in Logic, an Action Potential necessarily exists prior to the Action.

The question seems a correspondent of the most popular question “Was mathematics invented or discovered?” and relates to the nature of mathematics as well as to the philosophical problem of applicability of mathematics. However, there are anthropocentric and evolutionary features that the philosophical investigations on this topic have not focused on much: — Doru B

Most of the proposed answers I've seen, to the "invented vs discovered" question, seem to conclude that it's a little of both. The "unreasonable effectiveness of mathematics" in science indicates that Nature is in some sense fundamentally mathematical. But the history of math shows that humans using abstract "pure" mathematical principles, eventually find concrete practical applications for many of them.

That's why I have concluded that human Logic (Reason) is basically Geometry with words. Both manipulate abstract relationships (ratios ; relative values) in order to discover wider or narrower practical applications of those ratios. Ratios are inherent in Nature : for example, Energy is essentially a thermodynamic ratio between high & low, hot & cold, here & there. Likewise, Morality is basically an interactive ratio between me & you, us & them, good & evil. So, it seems that Evolution has programmed the human brain with a rudimentary sense of ratio, that we can expand on with education & practice. But, we can also lose that sense, when it is not exercised. Which is why I can no longer add 2 + 2, without the crutch of a non-human calculator.

I just read an article that deals with a similar topic : Human mathematics and God’s mathematics, by Catalin Barboianu, mathematician & philosopher of science. For the purposes of this thread, you can interpret "God's Mathematics" as the logical structure of Nature, and "Human Mathematics" as the human talent for discovering and inventing applications for that knowledge. He seems to believe that "to mathematize is human", so to speak : "Whatever mathematics is (science, method, formal language or logical symbolism), we do mathematics without being mathematicians". Yet, he also offers an alternative theory, that humans project their own subjective values onto Nature.

Speaking of subjective math, he adds that "The history of application of mathematics in the sciences also has a 'mysterious' element. Being driven by their natural impulses of inquiring and generalizing, but also following some special criteria of beauty, symmetry and elegance specific to the mathematical creation". Although we can't yet describe the evolutionary mechanics that created the aesthetic sense in humans & animals, it's more taken for granted than viewed as mysterious. Without consciously thinking about it, we can immediately recognize the symmetry & elegance in a beautiful face. And some have even tried to reduce it to geometry.

"Contemporary pioneering studies in what is called perceptual mathematics . . . . came to shape an interdisciplinary cognitive theory that claims that all mathematics is human, resides in the mind, and is not an external product of the mind. The human mind is endowed with innate primordial perceptions such as spatial (metric, linearity), numerical, and topological (proximity, relational structures), reflected by the common empirical concepts such as distance,motion, change, flow of time, and matter. It is further hypothesized that animals also hold such perceptions.Thus, the concepts of mathematics are not platonic, but are built in the brain from these primordial perceptions, and brain neurophysiology gives rise to the extremely precise and logical language of mathematics
https://medium.com/@cb_67963/human-math ... 82ac8e7bba

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