BothAndBlog Forum

Is logic an artificial construct or something integral to nature
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... ent/731450


The issue I have is that it has a human component. The thinker. Then observer. And therefore I’m not sure if logic exists without an aware/ sentient observer in the environment or of logical processes occur regardless of us and that “order” is relevant even without people in the picture. — Benj96

Modern Science has concluded that every physical thing in the universe is essentially a form of mathematics : geometric relationships & algebraic ratios & formal proportions. Quantum theory has revealed that matter is math --- fields of relationships between dimensionless points. Yet, all those res extensa (spatial things) have numerical values, but no meanings. It is "sentient observers" who give personal (relevant) meaning to otherwise impersonal (abstract) relationships. That's why the "human component" relates all things in the world to Self : the focal point of perspective.

Descartes defined the human mind as res cogitans (thinking thing). Because invisible intangible Thoughts have no physical extension in space. So, René thought of thoughts as more like math : abstract definitions of concrete things & external events. But, it's the concrete thinker who evaluates abstractions in terms of relationship-to-Self. Those personal ME meanings put flesh on the bare bones of geometry.

Metaphorically, what we call "Logic" is simply mathematics with Words (Gk. logoi). And words are merely encapsulated & portable commonly-relevant meanings. Each person's experience of the world is different, but all sentient beings have mathematical bodies, engendered from mathematical topological DNA. So, all mind-making brains are akin, and similar in their basic physical structure. The brains of orcas, octopi & orioles may look different superficially. But in their fundamental physical structure they are similar. They all process information in logical patterns, which are essentially mathematical.

Therefore, the universe, from top to bottom --- from constellations to consciousness --- is essentially a network of logical mathematical interrelationships. So, the eventual emergence of sentient minds, with logical & mathematical talents, is not so surprising. Formal Logic may be an artificial construct in the natural world. But the roots of human Logic are entangled & embedded in the soil of Natural Math.


Physical spatial objects are fundamentally mathematical fields :
A field itself, either in classical physics or in its quantization, is simply a function on spacetime, assigning to each spacetime point the "value" of that field at that point.
https://physics.stackexchange.com/quest ... ematically

ONE OF THESE IS A BRAIN, THE OTHER IS THE UNIVERSE
From-other-Article.jpg

IE, what does the mathematical symbol G mean to us ? It means that we can predict what will happen, it does not mean that we know why it will happen. — RussellA

Perhaps those mathematical ratios & regularities tell us only that whatever happens is natural & logical -- or G*D's Will, if you will. From that assumption, we can make short-term predictions. But if we want to know where this trend will ultimately end, we'll need some prophetic powers. Otherwise, the "why" may be simply, as believers in holy scripture say : "it is written".

Of course, as philosophers, we are not content with such fatalistic shoulder shrugs. So, we are free to speculate about the intentions behind mathematical & logical destiny. Why "mathematics is the language of the universe"? Or why mathematics is "unreasonably effective". My observation is that the universe is not random & arbitrary, but is obviously governed by intention & logic. But "why?" can only be inferred from the history & direction of evolution. My feeble guess is that this expanding & complexifying universe is an experiment in freewill, limited only by natural laws. To paraphrase famous philosopher Dirty Harry, "Do you feel free, punk?"

The question remains, why is G the value it is in the first place. Either mathematics spontaneously caused itself, which I cannot accept, or there is something deeper than mathematics, meaning that the universe is not, at its core, mathematical. — RussellA

Why ask why? Oh yes, we're doing philosophy here, not calculation. Richard Feynman warned fellow physicists about getting side-tracked on "why" questions, when there were still so many "what" & "how" questions to resolve. Apparently he was quoting David Mermin : "If I were forced to sum up in one sentence what the Copenhagen interpretation says to me, it would be 'Shut up and calculate!'"

Anyway, I agree that there must be "something deeper than mathematics". As I mentioned before, numbers have only abstract values, hence they can't explain the emergence of reasons and personal meanings. So, I infer that the First Cause of our world must have possessed the Potential (creative power) for an organized world and for reasoning beings, which Plato labeled "LOGOS".

You can't go any "deeper" than the Primary Source of everything in our expanding & complexifying universe. It seems to be going somewhere, instead of just cycling in one place. So, that observation of direction implies some Intention behind the original causal impulse : the Mind behind the cue stick. Therefore, if a unique Singularity was the space-time point-of-origin for the Big Bang (not a self-destroying explosion, but an expansion of Potential into Actual), then it may have been like DNA, preprogrammed with enough information to construct a cosmos from scratch. Is that deep enough for you?

PS___In my personal thesis, I propose that the universe is, "at its core", Informational. And acausal abstract Mathematics is just one of many forms of Information ; causal Energy being another form. So, Tegmark is on the right track, but didn't go deep enough.

What is Information ? :
EnFormAction --- The power to enform, to create, to cause change ; the essence of informed awareness ; the act of enforming.
http://bothandblog6.enformationism.info/page16.html

LOGOS :
Logos became a technical term in Western philosophy beginning with Heraclitus (c.  535 – c.  475 BC), who used the term for a principle of order and knowledge. . . . . For Heraclitus, logos provided the link between rational discourse and the world's rational structure.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logos#:~: ... 20Universe.