BothAndBlog Forum

It's important to keep in mind that for Schopenhauer, the will as thing in itself is the closest approximation to the thing in itself. . . . . what could this REFERENT be?? — Manuel

I've never read any of Schopenhauer's works, but my superficial understanding of his notion of Universal Will, sounds similar to a scientist's concept of causal Energy. He seemed to replace the personal Soul with an impersonal Drive or Motivation to work for life & survival. In other words, a human being is merely a robotic machine programmed (by evolution?) to do whatever is necessary to propagate its core program (seed) into the future --- to what end? But if invisible intangible abstract Energy is the universal ding-an-sich, it must also take on the causal, material & mental forms that we observe in the world.

That notion is similar to the 21st century concept of Information*1 as the ubiquitous shape-shifting "substance" that exists in the various forms of Energy & Matter & Mind*2. Hence, the evolutionary offspring of the Prime Mover (power to create & animate Forms) is the essence of all things in the world. In that case, our perceptions of mind, matter & energy may be the "approximations" (representations) that Schop was referring to. Could universal generic Information be the referent of Will? Does that make sense to someone more familiar with his publications?


*1. Information :
Knowledge and the ability to know. Technically, it's the abstract mathematical ratio of order to disorder, of positive to negative, of knowledge to ignorance. It's measured in degrees of uncertainty. Those ratios are also called "differences". So Gregory Bateson* defined Information as "the difference that makes a difference". The latter distinction refers to "value" or "meaning". Babbage called his prototype computer a "difference engine". Difference is the cause or agent of Change. In Physics it’s called "Thermodynamics" or "Energy". In Sociology it’s called "Conflict".
https://blog-glossary.enformationism.info/page11.html

*2. Mind as Energy :
The mind is viewed as energies of relationships, with no beginning and no end, that give rise to consciousness in an observer processing change or information from the universe.
https://researchoutreach.org/articles/mind-as-energy/

Not a machine no, a creature of nature - not his exact words, but that's what he means. He appears to have something quite similar to evolution in mind and discusses some interesting ideas associated with such concepts. — Manuel

I got the idea that Schop thought of humans as mechanisms from the Wiki & JSTOR articles*1, which said he denied the existence of a Soul (immaterial essence, animating principle, spirit), perhaps due to the religious baggage attached to the notion of immortal spirits. But the most general meaning of "Soul" has been the rational powers that distinguish god-like humans from mere mechanical animals. Did I get the wrong impression of Schop's contrast of Will vs Soul?

The article also uses the term "possessed" to describe the activity of Will within a human. Is that not similar to the notion of Spirit possession?

*1. Soul vs Will :
Arthur Schopenhauer did not believe in soul. However, he explained that every living thing is possessed by a will.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.5406/ja ... s.8.1.0012

I think he would have some issues with the term "information", as it comes loaded with many ideas that are quite the opposite of his elaboration of "will". The will is a blind striving, with no goal in mind. While there are several elaborations of "information" theory that are clear that information is meant in a technical sense, it becomes very slippery very quickly. — Manuel

"Blind striving" sounds very much like the common notion of physical Energy/Force. But, as the driving impetus behind Evolution, that cosmic Will-Power seems to have some direction (e.g. toward complexity & organization against impossible odds); especially here on Earth. That may be one reason some scientists are beginning to view physical Energy as a specific form of generic (multi-form) Information*2.

The original referent of the term "Information" was the immaterial contents of a Mind : Ideas, Facts, Intentions. Some of those enformed concepts seem to be the motivators & shapers of human goals. For example, the idea of a canal across the mountain ridge of Panama was so rationally & emotionally powerful, for economic & socio-cultural reasons, that it motivated the expenditure of decades of Time, and millions of money investments to overcome impossible odds*3. In a very real sense, Information (ideas) was transformed into Energy to "strive" for very focused goals. You might say that the idea of a short canal across forbidding mountains was the ding an sich (ideal referent) of the man-made watercourse we have today. Is the visionary concept of a future state merely a poetic metaphor, or also a causal force?


*2. Information transformed into Energy to do work :
Physicists in Japan have shown experimentally that a particle can be made to do work simply by receiving information, rather than energy.
https://physicsworld.com/a/information- ... to-energy/

*3. Man behind the Panama Canal :
French engineer Bunau-Varilla energetically promoted a canal in Panama.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippe_Bunau-Varilla
Note --- Was he "possessed" by "blind striving" Will, or by a goal-oriented idea/emotion/will.?

I recommend a recent (2014) book, Schopenhauer’s Compass, Urs App. — Quixodian

Thanks, but I'm a lazy amateur philosophical hobbyist. So I'm not likely to read the recommended book. I'd prefer to hear your well-informed & succinct opinion on the question of Schopenhauer's substitution of "Will" in place of "Soul". Was he rejecting supernatural Christian doctrine, regarding the essence of humanity, in favor of Buddhist notions*1 of a godless-mindless-worldly-physical-natural Life Force? I don't really care about Schop's opinion {pace ↪180 Proof}, except as it fits into the panoply of philosophical conjectures on the Subjective Awareness of why we strive to live. Are we living for something higher than just another day in the mundane life of Me?

The article I referenced above was entitled : "Schopenhauer and Buddhism: soulless continuity". Another article, entitled "Arthur Schopenhauer: a herald of the World Soul"*2 seems to imply that his "will-to-live"*3 was an impersonal natural force, comparable to Plato's Anima Mundi, and Bergson's Elan Vital, and Spinoza's Conatus. All of which are similar, in some features, to my own concept of Enformy & EnFormAction*4. Which is based primarily on Quantum & Information Science instead of religious or philosophical traditions. A late evolutionary expression of the information aspect of that natural force is what we now know as Mind & Intellect.

Yet, Nature/Cosmos is now known to have a questionable creatio ex nihilo, for which philosophers & cosmologists are still seeking a plausible First Cause. For example, was the Big Bang just an explosion of Preternatural Power without precedent and without meaning? Is the Will to Live, just the meaningless momentum from that initial outburst of causation? What was the primal Will Power, the original ding an sich?

PS__Is Schop postulating that Life is the fundamental force of the world, and that Mind is merely an accidental result of "blind striving"? If "life only comes from life" (per Pasteur), then does Mind only come from Mind?

*1. Buddhism in a Nutshell :
Buddhism denies the existence of an unchanging or eternal soul created by a God or emanating from a Divine Essence (Paramatma).
https://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/bu ... hell09.htm

*2. Herald of the World Soul :
Schopenhauer overcame Kantian skepticism by reinterpreting both Subject and the “Thing-in-Itself”. For him, Both actually form yet another, “missing” Attribute of the Spinozian Substance, Which becomes Its Natura Naturans. The resulting Arche, in contrast to Mind or Body, is Life proper, Which in antiquity had been featured as the “World Soul” and Which in the philosophy of Modern Times was more commonly known as “World Will”. Unlike Schelling, Schopenhauer did not shrink from his discovery and did not return to the Christian God. Instead, he seized on this precarious Arche and termed It more concisely and definitely, as “Will-to-Live”.
https://alexei800.wordpress.com/2014/11 ... orld-soul/
Note --- Arche : Archē, or 'principle', is an ancient Greek philosophical term. Building on earlier uses, Aristotle established it as a technical term with a number of related meanings, including 'originating source', 'cause', 'principle of knowledge' and 'basic entity'.
https://www.rep.routledge.com/articles/ ... /arche/v-1

*3. Schopenhauer as Stoic :
Within Schopenhauer’s vision of the world as Will, there is no God to be comprehended, and the world is conceived of as being inherently meaningless.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/schopenhauer/

*4. Enformy :
In the Enformationism theory, Enformy is a hypothetical, holistic, metaphysical, natural trend or force, that counteracts Entropy & Randomness to produce complexity & progress --- including the evolutionary emergence of Life & Mind.
https://blog-glossary.enformationism.info/page8.html