TPF: Dualism and Interactionism
Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2023 3:55 pm
Dualism and Interactionism
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... ent/846487
Once we realized that abstractions are not reality, things become easier. There is no reason to think that the laws of mindless matter should apply without modification to thinking beings. — Dfpolis
Yes. Abstractions only exist in the imaginary world of Minds. So, they are Ideal, not Real. And physical laws can only be used as metaphors for metaphysical relationships.
Most contemporary philosophers of mind employ a Cartesian conceptual space in which reality is (at least potentially) divided into res extensa and res cogitans. Then, they ask: how res cogitans could possibly interact with res extensa? I am suggesting that this approach is nonsensical because reality cannot be divided into res extensa and res cogitans. Clearly, thinking depends on neural processes and neural processes depend on extended stuff. This dependence has been known since Aristotle wrote De Anima. — Dfpolis
I assume that by "non-sensical" you mean : from the perspective of Realism & Materialism. You may be correct, that many-if-not-most posters on TPF identify as materialists or physicalists, to the exclusion of psychological or metaphysical views. But not all.
Atomism/Materialism was an ancient philosophy, that was later confirmed in terms of physical laws in the 17th century. However, some of Newton's assumptions have been called into question by 20th century sub-atomic Science. So now, there are good empirical reasons to doubt*1 the evidence of the physical senses, and to apply the 6th sense of philosophical Reasoning. The "science" I'm referring to is Quantum Physics, not Spiritualism.
Res Cogitans is literally non-sense in the sense that mental phenomena cannot be perceived via the 5 physical senses. But commonsense led ancient thinkers to conclude that Life Functions and Mental Phenomena are not explainable in terms of their material substance. Fictional Dr. Frankenstein injected Life into his creature with a jolt of natural Lightning. But real-world scientists have not been able to cause inert (dead) matter to become a living person by means of electrical Energy. The Miller-Urey experiment, almost a century ago, didn't even come close to creating life from non-life. So, it seems that there is still a missing element or force in the Matter + X = Life or the Matter + Life + X = Mind equations. Moreover, Reality still seems to persist in presenting a dualistic face to life-seekers and mind-finders.
It's obvious that Minds are always Embodied ; unless you give credence to invisible intangible ghosts. But that simple eyeball observation does not explain the emergence of Anima or Noumena from Materia. Cartesian dualism was merely a compromise, intended to allow Science to proceed without interference from Religion*2. A more pertinent observation in the 21st century is that Mind is the Function of physical brains. But, is a Function Res Extensa or Res Cogitans, or something else, perhaps Res Causatio?
I'm not proposing a Triality, but merely that both space-occupying things, and thinking things, might be merely various products of evolutionary Causation. Not just boring linear mechanical causation, but the holistic non-linear Interactionism of quantum entanglement. I won't attempt to explain that conjectural hypothesis in this post. But I've been exploring the multi-faceted roles of Causal Information (e.g. physical Energy or mental Intention) for several years.
That Information-based notion does not displace Materialism for the practical purposes of Science, but it does provide a new way to understand the impractical unrealistic subjects of Philosophical investigations : the immaterial Mind Objects we call "Ideas" and "Concepts". And ultimately, it's a Monistic worldview.
*1. Uncertainty Principle :
The uncertainty principle presents a philosophical challenge to one of our basic assumptions about the nature of physical objects, namely, that physical variables have precise and definite objective existence.
https://www.quora.com/Does-Heisenbergs- ... rpretation
*2. Descartes's Dualism :
Thus, the concept of metaphysical dualism served to be a compromise between religion and science. Descartes suggested that immaterial substances such as the soul are the locus of free will and it tends to last beyond the death of the physical body and thereby, are immortal.
https://www.studocu.com/en-us/messages/ ... onhow-does
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... ent/846487
Once we realized that abstractions are not reality, things become easier. There is no reason to think that the laws of mindless matter should apply without modification to thinking beings. — Dfpolis
Yes. Abstractions only exist in the imaginary world of Minds. So, they are Ideal, not Real. And physical laws can only be used as metaphors for metaphysical relationships.
Most contemporary philosophers of mind employ a Cartesian conceptual space in which reality is (at least potentially) divided into res extensa and res cogitans. Then, they ask: how res cogitans could possibly interact with res extensa? I am suggesting that this approach is nonsensical because reality cannot be divided into res extensa and res cogitans. Clearly, thinking depends on neural processes and neural processes depend on extended stuff. This dependence has been known since Aristotle wrote De Anima. — Dfpolis
I assume that by "non-sensical" you mean : from the perspective of Realism & Materialism. You may be correct, that many-if-not-most posters on TPF identify as materialists or physicalists, to the exclusion of psychological or metaphysical views. But not all.
Atomism/Materialism was an ancient philosophy, that was later confirmed in terms of physical laws in the 17th century. However, some of Newton's assumptions have been called into question by 20th century sub-atomic Science. So now, there are good empirical reasons to doubt*1 the evidence of the physical senses, and to apply the 6th sense of philosophical Reasoning. The "science" I'm referring to is Quantum Physics, not Spiritualism.
Res Cogitans is literally non-sense in the sense that mental phenomena cannot be perceived via the 5 physical senses. But commonsense led ancient thinkers to conclude that Life Functions and Mental Phenomena are not explainable in terms of their material substance. Fictional Dr. Frankenstein injected Life into his creature with a jolt of natural Lightning. But real-world scientists have not been able to cause inert (dead) matter to become a living person by means of electrical Energy. The Miller-Urey experiment, almost a century ago, didn't even come close to creating life from non-life. So, it seems that there is still a missing element or force in the Matter + X = Life or the Matter + Life + X = Mind equations. Moreover, Reality still seems to persist in presenting a dualistic face to life-seekers and mind-finders.
It's obvious that Minds are always Embodied ; unless you give credence to invisible intangible ghosts. But that simple eyeball observation does not explain the emergence of Anima or Noumena from Materia. Cartesian dualism was merely a compromise, intended to allow Science to proceed without interference from Religion*2. A more pertinent observation in the 21st century is that Mind is the Function of physical brains. But, is a Function Res Extensa or Res Cogitans, or something else, perhaps Res Causatio?
I'm not proposing a Triality, but merely that both space-occupying things, and thinking things, might be merely various products of evolutionary Causation. Not just boring linear mechanical causation, but the holistic non-linear Interactionism of quantum entanglement. I won't attempt to explain that conjectural hypothesis in this post. But I've been exploring the multi-faceted roles of Causal Information (e.g. physical Energy or mental Intention) for several years.
That Information-based notion does not displace Materialism for the practical purposes of Science, but it does provide a new way to understand the impractical unrealistic subjects of Philosophical investigations : the immaterial Mind Objects we call "Ideas" and "Concepts". And ultimately, it's a Monistic worldview.
*1. Uncertainty Principle :
The uncertainty principle presents a philosophical challenge to one of our basic assumptions about the nature of physical objects, namely, that physical variables have precise and definite objective existence.
https://www.quora.com/Does-Heisenbergs- ... rpretation
*2. Descartes's Dualism :
Thus, the concept of metaphysical dualism served to be a compromise between religion and science. Descartes suggested that immaterial substances such as the soul are the locus of free will and it tends to last beyond the death of the physical body and thereby, are immortal.
https://www.studocu.com/en-us/messages/ ... onhow-does