BothAndBlog Forum

Metaphysics sets out the background against which the world is ordered, and is as much fiat as observation. One can avoid the circularity by recognising this. — Banno

Interesting way to define the role of Metaphysics : to give us a general "background" understanding of how the world system functions. Aristotle described how the natural world works in his Physics, then, in the section known as Metaphysics, looked into how the Cultural (mental) realm imposes human will onto Nature.

I could be wrong, but I think ↪Tom Storm was responding to your intimation about "ideology", with an ironic example of ideology-in-action. A man in need of affordable healthcare, scorns the idea of socialist medicine, where personal needs are more important than economic ends. Apparently, his adopted ideology is not in his own interest.

Your definition of Metaphysics in terms of military-style top-down order-by-fiat, seems to imply that Authoritarian rule is how things get done in the world. By contrast, a truly Democratic world would go around in circles. Maybe the perceived need for imposed order from above underlies both Religious and Political thus-saith-the-Lord Ideology. The sheep (masses) may need a strong-arm shepherd, but autocratic order may not be in the best interest of independent thinkers, such as philosophers.

Historically, Authoritarian leaders have had little patience with peer-to-peer philosophy and rule-by-the-unruly-masses Democracy. They see themselves as god-like figures imposing order on a rudderless world. Socratic philosophy, though, focuses on the self-imposition of order (self-discipline) for individuals. On the other hand, even Plato's justice seemed to settle for a pragmatic middle ground, by granting authority to counter-balancing tribunals in lieu of his transcendental ideal : Philosopher Kings. The American constitution also compromised with popular elections of a tripartite government, instead of a single hereditary sovereign King : an imperfect blend of top-down "fiat" and bottom-up freedom.

Nice place to be. But how is it different to collecting antiques? — Tom Storm

For me, Philosophy is a retirement hobby. But personally, I prefer collecting new ideas instead of old furniture. The difference is ideal vs real archetypes. Which is more valuable depends on where you "store your treasures".

It's because of my conversations with others about metaphysics that I have arrived my position. And note, I didn't say 'no need for metaphysics', I said no need for certain speculative forms thereof. — Tom Storm

Can you give me an example of non-speculative, empirically proven, Metaphysics? Chemistry may be the least speculative form of Physics. But, some people denigrate Quantum Physics because its inherent uncertainty invites speculation.

Check-out ↪Banno's description of Metaphysics above. He implies that you can avoid the circularity of conflicting opinions by having your opinions given to you by a higher authority. Is that the kind of non-speculative metaphysics you prefer?

But lack of certainty is no reason adopt an untrammelled fantasy life. — Tom Storm

Are you certain that Transcendental Idealism is about free-floating fantasies? Or is that just a prejudice against philosophical Idealism (science of ideas)? The OP is looking into "preconditions of experience", one of which is Life and another is Sentience (Mind ; Consciousness). Are those topics fantastic, and off-limits, to you? Is it a waste of time to discuss the reality behind physical appearances, that Kant called ding an sich (essences)? And what cognitive psychologist Donald Hoffman called "core reality"?

Apparently, you free-associate Metaphysics with Religion & Spiritualism. But, for me Meta-physics is Philosophy, the science of minds & ideas : the non-physical non-fantasy aspects of Reality. For example, Psychology is about Metaphysics (res cogitans), while Neuroscience is about Biology (res vita). Have you seen anyone on this thread talking about gods & ghosts? Or is the association with Fantasy merely a figment of your imagination? That might be a topic for another thread.



A Case for Transcendental Idealism :
By ‘transcendental idealism’, I just mean the original view, plus my interpretation of it, made by Immanuel Kant; which starts with the core idea that we cannot know what is ‘transcendent’ to us (viz., what may exist completely independently of our representative faculties) but, rather, only what is ‘transcendental’ (viz., the necessary preconditions for the possibility of experience) . . . .
Quote from OP
Note --- Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle says that we "we cannot know both the position and speed of a particle, such as a photon or electron, with perfect accuracy". But we don't have to fantasize those properties, we can interpolate them ("what may exist") from observational evidence. Physics is about what we can know via the physical senses. Metaphysics is about that which transcends the capabilities of our senses. The fact that our senses have limitations is not a fantasy. For example, invisible Oxygen is an interpretation of relevant evidence, not a perception --- yet it's essential for life. Likewise, electrons have never been seen or photographed, but they are essential for material properties. The orbit "image" below is calculated from mathematical data, not from visible light.

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This kind of thinking suggests a kind of meta-science, as if science were on the cusp of metaphysical discovery, making speculative science the cutting edge of metaphysical disclosure. — Astrophel

Not my kind of thinking. Instead, I view Metaphysics as literally beyond the scope of reductive materialistic Science. You can atomize matter down to evanescent Quarks, but you still won't find any evidence of Mind or Consciousness or Being.

For me, Metaphysics is the role of Philosophy, which synthesizes particular evidence into general principles. In that sense, Einstein was a philosopher. His "speculative science" was indeed on the cusp of "metaphysical disclosure" : Relativity is a general metaphysical principle, not an observed physical fact.

Metaphysics makes its appearance not in the laboratory or on the white board of equations and their speculative "interpolation" where paradigms leave off, but in the simple relation between me and this cup on the table in the inquiry that brackets or suspends all superfluous and implicit assumptions that construct the knowledge relationship. — Astrophel

Yes! Metaphysics and Philosophy are all about Holistic inter-relationships not about Reductive isolated objects.

Transcendental idealism? It is right before your eyes. Drop the term 'idealism'. Better: transcendental phenomenology. — Astrophel

Yes, again! Phenomenology is about things & events "out there", But Transcendental Phenomenology would be focused on the ideal mental representations and interpretations of those real physical things. Traditional Idealism tended to reject reality as an illusion. And Materialism rejected ideality as an illusion. Perhaps your term will rise above those either/or worldviews, to accept that our world is both Mental and Material.

Phenomenology :
1.the science of phenomena as distinct from that of the nature of being.
2. an approach that concentrates on the study of consciousness and the objects of direct experience. ___Oxford dictionary