BothAndBlog Forum

When I consider abiogenesis as a "natural" explanation of where life comes from, it seems to me that for some combination of particles to be the recipe for the first lifeform would just be a miraculous occurrence, even if and especially if, one excludes a supernatural explanation. Does anyone have perspective of it or an alternative theory? I am open to a "natural" explanation for life's origin, I'm just not sure an account can be given in natural terms without any miraculous occurrences. — NotAristotle

I do have a philosophical hypothesis of abiognesis (life from non-life), but it's a complex argument, involving quantum Uncertainty, Information theory, Evolution theory, Cosmology, and Entropy. There's nothing supernatural or miraculous about it, except for the same open-ended implication as Big Bang theory : something from nothing.

The postulated creative force is labeled as "meta-physical" in the sense that, like Energy and Entropy, it can only be inferred from its effects, not known by its substance. "Energy" only implies non-directional (neutral) Change, but Entropy*2 (regressive tendency) implies destructive changes. So, what's missing is an explanation for Positive Causation, toward complexity and organization.

Since Energy per se is aimless causation, if the emergence of life from non-life is a sign of anti-entropy (i.e. progress instead of regress), then some explanation for the mono-directional Arrow of Time*3 is needed, philosophically if not scientifically. This thesis merely combines Energy with Information (the positive power to transform).


*1. Enformy :
In the Enformationism theory, Enformy is a hypothetical, holistic, metaphysical, natural trend or force, that counteracts Entropy & Randomness to produce complexity & progress. [ see post 63 for graph ]
*** I'm not aware of any "supernatural force" in the world. But my Enformationism theory postulates that there is a meta-physical force behind Time's Arrow and the positive progress of evolution. Just as Entropy is sometimes referred to as a "force" causing energy to dissipate (negative effect), Enformy is the antithesis, which causes energy to agglomerate (additive effect).
*** Of course, neither of those phenomena is a physical Force, or a direct Cause, in the usual sense. But the term "force" is applied to such holistic causes as a metaphor drawn from our experience with physics.
https://blog-glossary.enformationism.info/page8.html

*2. Entropy counter to arrow of Time :
“ Rise in entropy in all physical systems and the resulting one-way slide of the universe from order to chaos, tending towards what physicists call its ‘heat death’.” ___Paul Davies, physicist
Note --- Planet Earth is the primary example of Negative Entropy in the universe, where Life & Mind have emerged against all odds (second law of thermodynamics). Negentropy is an accepted scientific term, but Enformy is my own philosophical term for positive evolution.

*3. Entropy is one of the few quantities in the physical sciences that require a particular direction for time, sometimes called an arrow of time. As one goes "forward" in time, the second law of thermodynamics says, the entropy of an isolated system can increase, but not decrease. ___Wikipedia

It's possible time doesnt exist outside the realm of what living things perceive.
In this case, positive causation and entropy are mutually synergistic.
Without positive causation, entropy cannot be observed (ie the arrow of time cannot be experienced). Without entropy, positive causation or the tendency towards order, sumilarly cannot exist — Benj96

I agree that, for insentient matter, there is no concept of Time, just meaningless Change. For a world without thinking & feeling persons, the universe may be as described in Einstein's thought experiment of Block Time. Without memory, there is no Past or Future, just Now, or perhaps nothingness.

We only know that Energy exists by observing both positive and negative changes in matter . . . . some good for us, some bad. Likewise, we only know "Productive" Energy by contrast with "Destructive" Entropy. That's why scientists first described the invisible Agent of Change in terms of Entropy (decline, dissipation, destruction), and only as an afterthought, added a label for positive Change : Negentropy (literally : negation of negativity).

I also agree that Positive Energy (order) and Negative Entropy (disorder) are complementary, perhaps even synergistic {see image below}. Almost every aspect of reality has a "positive" and "negative" aspect, but those labels are meaningful only to sentient beings. So, like Time, they may not exist "outside the realm of . . . living things". Perhaps without the limiting "laws" of physics, and the annihilating brakes of Entropy, the burgeoning evolution of the universe (toward order & organization) could not exist.

In the near-infinite universe, Randomness and Order coexist; uneasily, but fruitfully. Yet, on earth, order reigns supreme. That's why Plato imagined his rational world as a temporal Cosmos separated out of eternal Chaos*1. According to the second law of thermodynamics, order is an exception to the rule of general disorder*2. And yet, here we are : organized matter, thinking rational thoughts about a world born from a creative blast of energy, but ever-since descending back toward the original state of unformed Plasma . . . . except in our little corner of the cosmos, in the realm of "living things".


*1. Plato's conception of the Cosmos :
Pythagoras was the first, says Plutarch, "who named the compass of the whole a Cosmos, because
of the order which is in it"
https://www.jstor.org/stable/27900668

*2. Entropy vs Enformy :
*** Entropy is a property of the universe, modeled as a thermodynamic system. Energy always flows from Hot (high energy density) to Cold (low density) -- except when it doesn't. On rare occasions, energy lingers in a moderate state that we know as Matter, and sometimes even reveals new qualities and states of material stuff .
*** The Second Law of Thermodynamics states that, in a closed system, Entropy always increases until it reaches equilibrium at a temperature of absolute zero. But some glitch in that system allows stable forms to emerge that can recycle energy in the form of qualities we call Life & Mind. That glitch is what I call Enformy.
https://blog-glossary.enformationism.info/page8.html

COMPLEMENTARITY OF POSITIVE & NEGATIVE
yin-yang-duality.jpg

I take Time to be nothing but the acknowledgement of before-after wrt states of affairs. Obviously, something insentient can't acknowledge this, but the changes still occur.
Is that you feel for an insentient being this is just not relevant, or that for them, metaphysically, time wouldn't pass? — AmadeusD

Yes. Time is a concept formulated by sentient observers of Change, for whom Difference is the essence of Sentience*1. But presumably, Change continues in the remote backwaters of the universe, where to our knowledge there are no observers. For example, the latest Mars missions have found evidence of physical changes over time, but no little green men to take note of it. For those red rocks lying in an ancient dry river bed, Time is "not relevant". So for them, as you say, "metaphysically" (relation to Mind) Time stands still*2.

*1. Perception is knowledge of Change :
Sameness, similarity and difference are basic relationships in human perception and cognition.
https://www.mdpi.com/2079-3200/11/9/172

*2. À la recherche du temps perdu :
The relationship between time and change remains elusive. Giving time priority over change, and imagining time continuing in the absence of events, have unsatisfactory consequences. It is no less unsatisfactory to see time as generated from, or subsisting in, the relations between events, if only because this leaves us with the seeming impossibility of characterising the nature of that relationship without mentioning the word ‘time’. ___Raymond Tallis
https://philosophynow.org/issues/115/Time_and_Change

Note --- Planet Earth is the primary example of Negative Entropy in the universe, where Life & Mind have emerged against all odds (second law of thermodynamics). — Gnomon
I would suggest the system is the solar system, not just the Earth. The energy from the sun could have powered the increase in order. — Patterner

Yes, but, "could" is counterfactual. Are you aware of instances of Life & Mind anywhere except on the third rock from the sun?

Do you think that no radioactive isotopes that were in the rock at the time of the rock's fomation have decayed? — wonderer1

Unobserved Change is not Time. I think you missed the point of the "red rock" example. The dry river bed is evidence of physical Change in the environment over eons of Time. But, even internal sub-atomic changes would be irrelevant to an insentient rock, presumably lacking both the cognitive power of Interoception, and the ability to measure differences. Time is a measurement.


Interoception — your brain's representation of sensations from your own body
https://www.psychologicalscience.org/ob ... sensations

Yes, but, "could" is counterfactual. Are you aware of instances of Life & Mind anywhere except on the third rock from the sun? — Gnomon
I'm only saying there is a source of energy that can account for the energy that would be needed to decrease the entropy, if that's what happened. — Patterner

Yes, but what is the source of organic Biogenesis (Negentropy ; Enformy) on all the other "rocks" in the system?

Pure Energy alone is neither positive (+) nor negative (-), neither constructive nor destructive --- just the Potential for directionless desultory Change. Entropy is how science defines dissipative change. So, we need a new positive term (Enformy?) to designate beneficial, organic, accumulative, directional, or determined changes : the power to transform Old to New, Past to Future, Dead to Life : opposite to the entropic Arrow of Time.


Negentropy is used to explain the presence of “order” within living beings and their tendency to oppose the chaos and disorganization that governs physical systems.
https://www.scirp.org/journal/paperinfo ... erid=99336

Desultory : lacking a plan, purpose

Entropic : a thermodynamic quantity representing the unavailability of a system's thermal energy for conversion into mechanical work, often interpreted as the degree of disorder or randomness in the system.

Organic : having systematic coordination of parts : organized. an organic whole

Gnever mind. I should have gnown better than to engage with gnarcissistic gnonsense. — wonderer1

Speaking of literal non-sense. How do you define Time, apart from metaphysical Measurement by a Mind?

Time has no physical properties to measure.
https://www.nist.gov/how-do-you-measure ... ure-second

Gnever mind. I should have gnown better than to engage with gnarcissistic gnonsense. — wonderer1
Gnow gnow. — Patterner

I'm not sure what ticked ↪wonderer1 off, but I suspect he doesn't appreciate my references to fundamental Information, and other sub-physical notions that might have something to do with the emergence of Life from abiotic Matter. Apparently he can't make sense of my immaterial "gnon-sense". But, if Abiogenesis was a sensible thing, you'd think it would already be accepted as a physical fact, instead of a philosophical theory.

I do use some concepts from Quantum Physics that are literally non-sense. For example, the hypothetical Quantum Field is not something you could perceive with your 5 physical senses. Although undetectable by senses or instruments, physicists assume that their imaginary mathematical grid must be real, because they have no better idea for the source of physical Energy (e.g. vacuum energy). I do postulate that Life is a form of Energy, which is a local form of universal Enformation (power to transform).

In a related topic, I just read about the novel notion of Information Realism in Bernardo Kastrup's Science Ideated. He attributes that worldview to mathematical physicist Max Tegmark, who claimed "matter is done away with and only information itself is taken to be ultimately real". The term "Information Realism" is also connected to Yale philosopher of Information Luciano Floridi. Who admitted that "information remains an elusive concept", hence it can easily be dismissed by materialists as "non-sense".

Since philosophers manipulate Concepts instead of Matter, most of their speculations are literally non-sense, and can only make "sense" via rational inference instead of physical perception. Do you think the explanation for Abiogenesis will necessarily conform to the current dominant scientific worldview of Materialism?


Information Realism? :
Physicists love to play the philosopher, and when they do the result is often nonsense. A recent example is the so-called information realism of physicist Max Tegmark. Here is the gist of it:

. . . according to information realists, matter arises from information processing, not the other way around. Even mind—psyche, soul—is supposedly a derivative phenomenon of purely abstract information manipulation.

When I read this, I said to myself, "I will have no trouble blowing this nonsense out of the water." Reading on, however, I noted that the author of the Scientific American piece, Bernardo Kastrup, did exactly that.
https://maverickphilosopher.typepad.com ... alism.html
Note --- Ironically, Kastrup's alternative to Information Realism is Analytical Idealism. Which the Maverick Philosopher might also characterize as "nonsense". But the Information Philosopher might beg to differ :

The Information Philosopher has established that quantum mechanics and thermodynamics play a central role in the creation of all things. This finding has enormous implications for philosophy and metaphysics.
https://www.informationphilosopher.com/introduction/

Terrence Deacon on Abiogenesis :
The major transition from the nonliving to the living - the problem of abiogenesis, and the introduction of telos in the universe - happens in Deacon's third level.
https://www.informationphilosopher.com/ ... ts/deacon/
Note --- Are you familiar with Deacon's Incomplete Nature?

↪AmadeusD

↪Benj96

I’ve said this before, but I’ll try again - there’s no such thing as ‘generic information’. Information is always specific. — Wayfarer

It's true that Shannon's Information (data) is always specific, since it is used for communication engineering purposes. But Terrence Deacon is "redefining information"*1 by postulating a triad of Information types : Shannon, Boltzmann, & Darwin. You can think of them as Pragmatic Engineering, Thermodynamic, & Biological functions. However, I use the term "Generic Information" to mean something like the source (generator) of all Forms (everything physical & biological & mental) in the world.

Hence, my Generic Information is fundamental, in the sense of John A. Wheeler's "It from Bit" hypothesis*2, based on Quantum Uncertainty (coin flip). When applied to biological Natural Selection, the semi-random Bit-flip is a gamble that decides the direction of Evolution. But it's a "choice" with a physical memory : material forms. And the material record indicates that the "coin" may be weighted with a tendency toward Complexity & Consciousness.


*1. Redefining Information :
Beginning from the base established by Claude Shannon, which otherwise ignores
issues of content, reference, and evaluation, this two part essay explores its
relationship to two other higher-order theories that are also explicitly based on an
analysis of absence: Boltzmann’s theory of thermodynamic entropy (in Part 1)
and Darwin’s theory of natural selection (in Part 2). ___Terrence Deacon
https://www.informationphilosopher.com/ ... ing_II.pdf

*2. It from Bit Koan :
Wheeler has condensed these ideas into a phrase that resembles a Zen koan: “the it from bit.” In one of his free-form essays, Wheeler unpacks the phrase as follows: “...every it--every particle, every field of force, even the spacetime continuum itself--derives its function, its meaning, its very existence entirely--even if in some contexts indirectly--from the apparatus-elicited answers to yes-or-no questions, binary choices, bits.” ___John Horgan
https://johnhorgan.org/cross-check/phys ... t-from-bit

I read Kastrup’s essay as directly challenging the kind of ‘information realism’ that you seem to be advocating. — Wayfarer

I had never heard the term Information Realism before reading Science Ideated. Kastrup does indeed challenge Tegmark's Mathematical Universe hypothesis. But that's only a small part of what I'm "advocating". I can see that Mathematics is the Logic of reality. But EnFormAction is also postulated as the creative Causal Force of reality.

Kastrup's alternative worldview is Analytical Idealism, which may also be a small part of my more inclusive worldview of Enformationism. As Floridi says, Information can be viewed both analytically and metaphysically. So, while I can accept each of those partial theories of Information, I am not personally advocating any but my own little amateur Theory of Everything.


*3. Philosophy of Information :
PI may be approached in two ways, one analytical and the other metaphysical. The chapter ends with the suggestion that PI might be considered a new kind of first philosophy. ___Luciano Floridi
https://academic.oup.com/book/32518/cha ... m=fulltext

Note --- Are you familiar with Deacon's Incomplete Nature? — Gnomon
Me? I love the book. At least the half I've gotten through. — Patterner

Stick with it. Incompleteness in reading leaves an ignorance Absence. Taken as a philosophical worldview, Deacon's theory of Creative Absence is a paradigm changer.

From the little I know of Complexity and Self-organization, I think it's plausible. I don't know enough specifics to defend the theory, though. And I don't think there's one specific abiogenesis theory that's considered more likely than others? Other than various creation stories, I don't know of other types of theories. — Patterner

Yes. There have been several scientific & philosophical attempts to explain the emergence of Life from non-life*1. But so far, none has hit a home-run, and all leave some unexplained gaps, such as the emergence of Mind from mindless Matter. I have my own personal Information-based Genesis hypothesis, which is more general & philosophical than just Biogenesis. But it lacks the mythical poetry of an anthro-morphic deity speaking the world into existence, and animating dead clay. So, it's not likely to serve as the basis for a popular religion.


*1. Origin of Life, Theories of :
There are many facets to the problem of understanding life’s origin and equally many ways to address it. The origin of life can be viewed from a variety of different standpoints: information theory (Yockey, 2005), RNA replication (Eigen and Schuster, 1977), meteorite impacts (Brack, 2009), physics (Smith and Morowitz, 2016), specific chemical synthesis (Powner et al., 2009), geo- chemistry (Martin and Russell, 2003), or entropy (Russell et al., 2013), to name a few.
http://www.esalq.usp.br/lepse/imgs/cont ... ies-of.pdf

LET THERE BE BIOLOGY
180544-9be73e42-ebda-11ed-a2ff-f278c9763eba.jpeg