BothAndBlog Forum

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... ent/354189

This theory is drawn from a book that came out recently — Enrique

Hi, Enrique. What book is that?

It is also unclear how qualia with their subjectively experienced causal effects can exist at all in association with averred bare, traditional chemistry, resulting in a persistently advocated dichotomy of mind and matter in our modeling of the central nervous system. — Enrique

I'm not qualified to comment on the quantum physics of "fast triplets". But with my general understanding of the quantum realm, I still don't see the connection between "sensitivity of organic processes to the environment" and consciousness of those sensations. Navigating birds may use "triplets" to sense the magnetic field as a pulling force, but the question remains whether they are consciously aware of the field, or of its significance as a navigation aid. It could be like a horse going in the direction the bridle is pulled, without awareness of where or why the rider wants to go that way.

to awareness as fundamental to the universe and matter nestled within it — Enrique

My own thesis of Enformationism postulates that raw information (energy), but not processed information (consciousness), is fundamental to the universe. Yet the transformation from meaningless pushes and pulls to meaningful ideas is still the "hard problem". All I can say is that the mental "process" may convert impersonal data into subjective significance, in the sense that the brain "computes" meaning from mathematics (data). The mechanics of that "act or process of enformation" are beyond me.

how qualia seem both supervenient and causal — Enrique

Aye. There's the rub. Terrance Deacon, in Incomplete Nature, also explores possible quantum effects -- as opposed to ordinary macro thermodynamics -- on the interpretation of "thingness" (tokens) into "aboutness" (meaning). But like me, he is left to guess about the details of that strange form of "causation". Imagining the universe and brain as quantum computers may be a step in the right direction, but there is still a dark "dichotomy" between objective reality and subjective experience. Whitehead's "prehension" may be somehow connected to "comprehension" via Entanglement, but I don't know how that would work in detail. So Consciousness remains a mystery, unless you assume that there is Entention behind Causation. Which is my solution.


Entention : causation plus direction;
Enformation : the power to give Form to the formless, meaning to the meaningless; EnFormAction
Incomplete Nature : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incomplete_Nature

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... ent/354189

The brain computes, it sounds like a theory of systems, therefore, we return to the above, mechanistic reductionism. — armonie
Any natural explanation will take the form of a mechanism or system. But not necessarily a reductio ad absurdum (i.e. a "turtles all the way down" explanation). A systems theory is holistic, not reductive.

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... ent/354189

Define holistic. — armonie

Holistic : characterized by comprehension of the parts of something as intimately interconnected and explicable only by reference to the whole.
In this case, the whole universe, including any entention behind its causation.

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... ent/354189

"A systems theory is holistic, not reductive."

This is not always the case, biology, for example, I cannot explain through a theory of systems a genetic mutation or a structural dysymmetry. — armonie

That's because a mutation is, by definition, a random accident. There is no cause & effect mechanism. But, when you combine Mutation and Selection, you get the holistic systematic mechanism of Evolution. Randomness is not a thing, but a quality or property of a system.

Mutation merely shuffles the deck, and Selection picks a card, but not at random. Evolutionary selection is based on fitness criteria (laws?). So, in order to understand how evolution works, you have to consider both the freedom of randomness and the determinism of natural laws. Together they have created everything in the universe, including both Quanta and Qualia.

The problem with objective reductive Science is that it typically ignores the subjective Quality side of the equation. But holistic philosophical theories can at least suggest possible paths from Matter to Mind. And the "maddening" non-sense of the mis-named, Quantum "Mechanics", leaves a lot of room for informed speculation. Which may suggest a different approach for finding a new kind of non-local "mechanism", such as quantum tunneling.

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... ent/354189

The book is Life on the Edge, The Coming of Age of Quantum Biology. — Enrique

I haven't read that book, but a couple of years ago, I read Quantum Evolution : LIfe In the Multiverse, by Johnjoe McFadden. It was more about big picture Evolution and Cosmology than about the details of Biology. In that book he asked a provocative question : " is there a force of will behind evolution?". And answered in the affirmative.

This was right down my alley, because my own Cosmological thesis postulates a combination of Energy & Information that I call EnFormAction. Metaphorically, I described it as equivalent to the "Will of God", creating the world incrementally in the process of Evolution (Emergence). This non-random "force" is also the essence of Energy & Matter, and its expression emerges from the "virtual" foundation of the Quantum Field, and continues in a succession of Phase Transitions right on up to the unpredictable emergence of Life and Mind from lifeless energy and mindless matter.

"It is at the root of consciousness and free-will and provides a new understanding of the origins of life and the purpose of death." https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/00065 ... bl_vppi_i1

The EnFormAction Hypothesis : http://bothandblog3.enformationism.info/page23.html

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... ent/354189

Explain these collapse of the wave function shenanigans, seems key to understanding quantum theory... — Enrique

"Collapse of the wave function" is a graphic metaphor for Emergence Theory and Phase Transitions on the quantum level of reality. And both of those are involved in the transformation of a collection of parts into a whole with new properties of its own.

Emergence : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergence

Phase Transitions : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_transition

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... ent/354189

unpredictable emergence (Gnomon)
Sounds like chaos. — armonie

In a state of superposition, a virtual (potential) particle is essentially in chaos (nowhere, nowhen), but then it suddenly emerges from that unreal state with a measurable position and velocity -- like the Starship Enterprise emerging from hyperspace. Apparently, quantum particles are sprung like mousetraps by nosy scientists probing in the fog. Scary and spooky.

A macro scale phase transition may be similar to a quantum level phenomenon, such as quantum tunneling, where a particle suddenly appears on the other side of a barrier without passing through the space in between. FWIW, I like to think of Quantum Fields and Chaos as Eternity/Infinity : no time, no space, no particles -- only potential.

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... ent/354189

I'm wondering, will it ever be possible to scientifically model chaos, would it look like negligible uncertainty in a particular probability distribution? — Enrique

Scientists have created mathematical models of chaotic systems, revealing internal structures and feedback loops. But these are "deterministic chaos" models, like weather patterns, wherein the outcome is predestined by the initial conditions. Although, in theory, they are predictable, the dynamics are so complex that, for all practical purposes, the system is a "black box". We can observe the initial conditions and the outcome, but what happens within is beyond our ability to calculate. So, for the time being, weather forecasters must make educated guesses beyond a week ahead. In other words, the uncertainty is far from negligible.

I mentioned that I like to think of Eternity/Infinity (no space, no time) as the ultimate black box of Chaos, with infinite potential, but completely unpredictable. That model of absolute Chaos is central to my personal theory of Creation ex nihilo. But it requires the assumption of intrinsic Intention (Will) for anything to actually happen : "Final Causality". That's why I call the ultimate Black Box "G*D".

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... ent/354189

A phase transition [at] macro scale [may] be similar to a quantum level phenomenon.
Oh, and this as? — armonie

I was just guessing, based on the common feature of Quantum Leaps and Phase Changes : sudden Emergence, apparently without intermediate steps. Classical Physics must assume the steps were taken, even though we can't observe them, and the time lapse seems to be instantaneous (light speed).

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... -mechanics

I'm conjecturing that the synthetic fluidity of perception can only be explained with quantum entanglement or some kind of quantum mechanism. — Enrique

I agree with your intuition that the Qualia of Subjective Consciousness may be somehow related to the mystery of Quantum Entanglement. Unfortunately, we don't have a good theory for how entanglement works. So, for all practical purposes, it's magical. That's why some scientists and philosophers are offended by appeals to Quantum Magic.

I have my own hypothesis to explain the "spooky action at a distance" of Entanglement. But it involves Infinity and Eternity. So It will also be offensive to those who prefer to remain within the familiar bounds of Reality. That's probably why even Roger Penrose proposes a material medium (quantum tubules) to explain how matter can become mind.


Quantum physics : Our study suggests objective reality doesn't exist
https://phys.org/news/2019-11-quantum-p ... oesnt.html