BothAndBlog Forum

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... ent/481620

[i] Semantic information may or may not be linguistic.[/i] — frank

In-form-ation, as the name implies, takes on many forms. In its generic form, I call it EnFormAction.

My personal worldview is based on the concept that Generic (general, all-inclusive) Information is the fundamental element of our world. It is the basic substance of everything from Physics to Linguistics. That may sound far-fetched, but my Enformationism thesis traces Information from its source, as encoded in the Big Bang Singularity, to its biological form as the genetic code in DNA, then to the kind of conventional meaningful Information (knowledge) that resides in human brains, and finally to its current application as an abstract vessel (Shannon Information) for carrying various values & meanings in modern computers. Even physical Energy is a dynamic form of Generic Information. So, you are correct that, "information may or may not be linguistic".

Information :
A quality of physical patterns and processes that stimulates meaning to emerge in a mind. Since it has few directly perceivable qualities itself, generic information is usually defined in terms of its context or container. Unlike colorless, odorless, and formless water though, Information gives physical form to whatever contains it. In the Enformationism thesis it is the single Substance of the whole World.
http://enformationism.info/enformationi ... page9.html

Enformationism : http://enformationism.info/enformationism.info/

So meaning comes last. — frank

The word "information" means the act of creating recognizable forms. But Shannon stripped the term of its original meaning in order to make an empty shell to contain whatever meaning we want to give it. What once was first, is now last.

Information :
* Claude Shannon quantified Information not as useful ideas, but as a mathematical ratio between meaningful order (1) and meaningless disorder (0); between knowledge (1) and ignorance (0). So, that meaningful mind-stuff exists in the limbo-land of statistics, producing effects on reality while having no sensory physical properties. We know it exists ideally, only by detecting its effects in the real world.
* For humans, Information has the semantic quality of aboutness , that we interpret as meaning. In computer science though, Information is treated as meaningless, which makes its mathematical value more certain. It becomes meaningful only when a sentient Self interprets it as such.
* When spelled with an “I”, Information is a noun, referring to data & things. When spelled with an “E”, Enformation is a verb, referring to energy and processes.
http://blog-glossary.enformationism.info/page11.html

So the general definition of information (GDI) is: — frank

Here's my own personal general definition of Information :

Information :
Knowledge and the ability to know. Technically, it's the ratio of order to disorder, of positive to negative, of knowledge to ignorance. It's measured in degrees of uncertainty. Those ratios are also called "differences". So Gregory Bateson* defined Information as "the difference that makes a difference". The latter distinction refers to "value" or "meaning". Babbage called his prototype computer a "difference engine". Difference is the cause or agent of Change. In Physics it’s called "Thermodynamics" or "Energy". In Sociology it’s called "Conflict".

I also distinguish Semantic Information from Shannon Information :

Information :
* Claude Shannon quantified Information not as useful ideas, but as a mathematical ratio between meaningful order (1) and meaningless disorder (0); between knowledge (1) and ignorance (0). So, that meaningful mind-stuff exists in the limbo-land of statistics, producing effects on reality while having no sensory physical properties. We know it exists ideally, only by detecting its effects in the real world.
* For humans, Information has the semantic quality of aboutness , that we interpret as meaning. In computer science though, Information is treated as meaningless, which makes its mathematical value more certain. It becomes meaningful only when a sentient Self interprets it as such.
* When spelled with an “I”, Information is a noun, referring to data & things. When spelled with an “E”, Enformation is a verb, referring to energy and processes.
http://blog-glossary.enformationism.info/page11.html

Although Shannon's work was specifically about transmission of information through communications systems. — Wayfarer

Yes, but the meaning of those transmissions is extracted from the digital code by the mind of the receiver. As philosopher Edward Feser noted : "Shannon was concerned with information in a syntactical rather than semantic sense". Syntax is the formal structure (grammar) of information transmission, and the vehicle or carrier of Meaning (Semantics). Syntax is like Morse code, which is nothing but conventionalized dots & dashes. Those abstractions have no specific concrete meaning until extracted by a conscious mind, trained to interpret the code. A biological analogy is the chemical arrangement of DNA, which is inert & meaningless, until interpreted by transcription factors into proteins.

Again, I'm questioning whether information can be regarded as 'an element' on the basis that it's not 'elementary'. — Wayfarer

Information is not found in the Periodic Table of Chemical Elements. And Shannon didn't think of Information as elementary or fundamental. It was just a useful tool for his engineering purposes. But physicists are now coming to the conclusion that quantum scale Information is the fundamental "substance" of physical reality. It's a Primary Substance in the Aristotelian (ousia ; essence)) sense, and the Universal Substance in the Spinozan (God-Nature) sense. Physicist Paul Davies proposed "grounding [natural] laws . . . in information considered as the 'ontological basement' level of physical reality". This unconventional view of immaterial Information --- as the basic element of Matter, Energy, and SpaceTime --- is not yet accepted by all scientists, but it is an idea on the leading edge of scientific progress.


Is Information Fundamental ? : https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/i ... ndamental/

Is information the only thing that exists? : Physics suggests information is more fundamental than matter, energy, space and time
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg ... at-exists/

Is Information Fundamental? : Could information be the most basic building block of reality?
https://www.closertotruth.com/series/in ... undamental

The basis of the universe may not be energy or matter but information : In this radical view, the universe is a giant supercomputer processing particles as bits.
https://bigthink.com/philip-perry/the-b ... nformation

to make universal claims has a downside to it viz. the loss of meaning: — TheMadFool

Yes. It's well-known in philosophy that Universals and Generals are abstract and non-specific, hence lacking in concrete specified meaning. But that very abstract universality of Shannon's code (1s & 0s) is also its power. The two-digit code can carry any of zillions of possible meanings. But the specific intended meaning must be interpreted by a trained mind similar to that of the encoder.

For humans, Information has the semantic quality of aboutness , that we interpret as meaning. In computer science though, Information is treated as meaningless, which makes its mathematical value more certain. It becomes meaningful only when a sentient Self interprets it as such.
http://blog-glossary.enformationism.info/page11.html

John Searle's Critique of Computer Cognitivism : "if left un-interpreted the symbols will not carry semantic information".

But I still say the idea of ‘generic information’ is self-contradictory. Information has to specify something or inform something specific. It’s like the equivalent of Aristotle’s ‘prima materia’ which is a metaphysical idea, not something that exists in reality. — Wayfarer

That's exactly the point of the Enformationism thesis. Generic (general, universal, creative) Information is Meta-physical. But it has the power to transform into Physical things,including living things --- just like Energy --- and like Plato's Forms. This radical notion is explained further in the thesis and the blog. The "specification" is in the Intention. And in Evolution, the fittest physical form is "selected" (specified) from among a random assortment of potential forms. Natural Selection is an algorithm.

EnFormAction is not a physical force, pushing objects around. It’s more like Gravity and Strange Attractors of Physics that “pull” stuff toward them. It is in effect a Teleological Attractor. How that “spooky action at a distance” works may be best explained by Terrence Deacon’s definition of “Absence”.
http://bothandblog2.enformationism.info/page29.html

Evolution Algorithm :
A genetic algorithm is a search heuristic that is inspired by Charles Darwin's theory of natural evolution. This algorithm reflects the process of natural selection where the fittest individuals are selected for reproduction in order to produce offspring of the next generation.
https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... +algorithm

The ‘information signature’ which is associated with life is morphological - it is information that gives rise to biological forms. — Wayfarer

That invisible intangible Energy can somehow transform dead matter into living beings is well known. Many ancient traditions have postulated some kind of Vital Force or Chi or Prana or Soul. Since these "energies" have not been found by Physical Science, the names must refer to some Meta-physical power. In the Frankenstein novel, even the raw power of lightening was imagined as the vitalizing force. But nobody knows exactly how the "mechanism of organism" works. It seems to be related to the phase change from a collection of parts, to a single unified organic biological Whole.

I can't specify all the transitional steps from Matter to Life to Mind, but it seems to be merely a highly-evolved kind of Phase Transition --- like liquid to gas to solid. Terrance Deacon uses terms like "Morphodynamics", "Teleodynamics", & "Emergent-dynamics" to describe some of the higher-level phase transitions.

To clarify, I don't consider EnFormAction to be a magical force, but it is meta-physical in the sense that the origin of natural Energy is unknown, and is assumed to exist eternally, like Plato's Forms.

Terrance Deacon : . . . phase transition between morphodynamics and teleodynamics . . .
https://informationphilosopher.com/solu ... ts/deacon/

Meta-Physics :
* "Physics" refers to the things we perceive with the eye of the body. Meta-physics refers to the things we conceive with the eye of the mind. "Meta-physics" includes the properties, and qualities, essences, and functions that make a thing what it is. Matter is just the clay from which a thing is made. Meta-physics is the design (form; purpose; cause); physics is the product (shape; stuff; effect). The act of creation brings an ideal design into actual existence. The design concept is the “formal” cause of the thing designed.
http://blog-glossary.enformationism.info/page14.html

Morphological : relating to the form or structure of things.
Note -- EnFormAction is Morphological.

(Actually I have a ref to provide also, Marcelo Barbieri, What is information?. — Wayfarer

Barbieri : What is not clear, however, is the ontological status of information,
The "ontological status of information" is the subject of the Enformationism thesis.

But I still say the idea of ‘generic information’ is self-contradictory. Information has to specify something or inform something specific. It’s like the equivalent of Aristotle’s ‘prima materia’ which is a metaphysical idea, not something that exists in reality. — Wayfarer

That's exactly the point of the Enformationism thesis. Generic (general, universal, creative) Information is Meta-physical. But it has the power to transform into Physical things,including living things --- just like Energy --- and like Plato's Forms. This radical notion is explained further in the thesis and the blog. The "specification" is in the Intention. And in Evolution, the fittest physical form is "selected" (specified) from among a random assortment of potential forms. Natural Selection is an algorithm.

EnFormAction is not a physical force, pushing objects around. It’s more like Gravity and Strange Attractors of Physics that “pull” stuff toward them. It is in effect a Teleological Attractor. How that “spooky action at a distance” works may be best explained by Terrence Deacon’s definition of “Absence”.
http://bothandblog2.enformationism.info/page29.html

Evolution Algorithm :
A genetic algorithm is a search heuristic that is inspired by Charles Darwin's theory of natural evolution. This algorithm reflects the process of natural selection where the fittest individuals are selected for reproduction in order to produce offspring of the next generation.
https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... +algorithm

The ‘information signature’ which is associated with life is morphological - it is information that gives rise to biological forms. — Wayfarer

That invisible intangible Energy can somehow transform dead matter into living beings is well known. Many ancient traditions have postulated some kind of Vital Force or Chi or Prana or Soul. Since these "energies" have not been found by Physical Science, the names must refer to some Meta-physical power. In the Frankenstein novel, even the raw power of lightening was imagined as the vitalizing force. But nobody knows exactly how the "mechanism of organism" works. It seems to be related to the phase change from a collection of parts, to a single unified organic biological Whole.

I can't specify all the transitional steps from Matter to Life to Mind, but it seems to be merely a highly-evolved kind of Phase Transition --- like liquid to gas to solid. Terrance Deacon uses terms like "Morphodynamics", "Teleodynamics", & "Emergent-dynamics" to describe some of the higher-level phase transitions.

To clarify, I don't consider EnFormAction to be a magical force, but it is meta-physical in the sense that the origin of natural Energy is unknown, and is assumed to exist eternally, like Plato's Forms.

Terrance Deacon : . . . phase transition between morphodynamics and teleodynamics . . .
https://informationphilosopher.com/solu ... ts/deacon/

Meta-Physics :
* "Physics" refers to the things we perceive with the eye of the body. "Meta-physics" refers to the things we conceive with the eye of the mind. "Meta-physics" includes the properties, and qualities, essences, and functions that make a thing what it is. Matter is just the clay from which a thing is made. Meta-physics is the design (form; purpose; cause); physics is the product (shape; stuff; effect). The act of creation brings an ideal design into actual existence. The design concept is the “formal” cause of the thing designed.
http://blog-glossary.enformationism.info/page14.html

Morphological : relating to the form or structure of things.
Note -- EnFormAction is Morphological.

(Actually I have a ref to provide also, Marcelo Barbieri, What is information?. — Wayfarer

Barbieri : What is not clear, however, is the ontological status of information,

The "ontological status of information" is the subject of the Enformationism thesis.

Well, all due respect, I don't think you've really clarified it. But then, it's a very deep question. — Wayfarer

As you said, the ontological status of "Information" is a complex topic with many aspects. In order to understand my personal attempt at clarification, you'd have to read the whole Enformationism thesis. Some may find it tedious and irrelevant to science, but I think it's a novel, even radical re-interpretation and consilience of the original meaning of "Information" as Knowledge in a mind, and the new concepts of "Information" as an abstract code, and as the essence of causal Energy : the ability to enform,

Consilence : agreement between the approaches to a topic of different academic subjects, especially science and the humanities.

Did you notice the brief discussion of Hubert Yockey in that paper? — Wayfarer

Yes. I think he's missing the key point of the Enformationism thesis : that information is not just a carrier of Data, but of Mind and Life. How do you think DNA information can enform not only proteins, but put them together into a living body? As a god-fearing person might ask, "at what step in the development of an embryo is the Soul imparted?" Maybe the potential for Life & Mind was in there from the beginning as Intention or Purpose or Teleology.

So the premise that information is fundamental, implies that God is even more fundamental. But this implication is simply ignored or denied by the informationist. — Metaphysician Undercover

Yes. I was led by my exploration of the Enformationism thesis to conclude that something like a Divine Creator -- or First Cause of our space-time sequence of secondary causes -- is reasonable to assume; perhaps even necessary to believe. But the very generality & universality of Information in the real world, does not specify any particular traditional deity concept. Nor does it imply any humanoid characteristics, such as motherly love or fatherly commandments.

That's why, in my thesis and blog, I refer to the Enformer by many names, including the deliberately non-specific term "G*D". I take the necessary existence of The Programmer as an axiom in my worldview. But even more fundamental than a creative Prime Cause is the eternal power to exist, which I call BEING. Yet I don't have any reason to expect the Designer of Evolution (The Lawgiver) to make an exception to the universal rules of Nature, for poor little me. I also don't see any evidence of a revelation, apart from that which Science uncovers, to any particular tribe of humans.

So all those Metaphysical roles affect me in a philosophical way, but not in any particular physical difference or emotional charge. Like the Supreme Being of Deism, my G*D does not not intervene in the implacable automatic execution of the Evolutionary Program. Hence, while I am sympathetic to traditional notions of Supernatural Gods, I don't have any motive to worship or pray-to that Universal Agency. Enformationism is a philosophical worldview, not a romantic religion.

PS___I assume the "informationist" you refer to is restricted to the technical mechanical Shannon interpretation, and omits the Bayesian criterion, which includes a parameter for personal beliefs and opinions.

Yes, causality = information = meaning. However, I don't understand your aversion to synonyms. Do you not use some words interchangeably? Also, I think "information" provides that sense of aboutness that "causality" does not seem to imply. — Harry Hindu

Good point! That is why I say that Energy is Information (the power to enform), but Information is not just mechanical Energy. Information also causes Meaning in a mind.

Information :
* Claude Shannon quantified Information not as useful ideas, but as a mathematical ratio between meaningful order (1) and meaningless disorder (0); between knowledge (1) and ignorance (0). So, that meaningful mind-stuff exists in the limbo-land of statistics, producing effects on reality while having no sensory physical properties. We know it exists ideally, only by detecting its effects in the real world.
* For humans, Information has the semantic quality of aboutness , that we interpret as meaning. In computer science though, Information is treated as meaningless, which makes its mathematical value more certain. It becomes meaningful only when a sentient Self interprets it as such.
* When spelled with an “I”, Information is a noun, referring to data & things. When spelled with an “E”, Enformation is a verb, referring to energy and processes.
http://blog-glossary.enformationism.info/page11.html