Look to yourself
Does the real responsibility for the way things are, lie more with the fact that good people don't do enough to combat those who are only interested in their own advancement?
A situation arises such that, If I sacrifice my life then I would significantly improve the lives of a great many others. But no-one would ever know. I would never be credited. In fact, due to the lies of others, I would forever be known as one of the main villains of the scenario. Would I do it? Would you?
I like to think I would but I have never been tested in this type of situation. — universeness
This kind of hypothetical moral quandary puts people in untenable situations. If you accept the machine-like logical computation of Utilitarianism, or the god-like Categorical Imperative, then the moral solution would be obvious -- if you could instantly calculate all possible consequences of your decision. But very few humans (academic philosophers aside) think that way.
Instead, we do quick back-of-the-envelope subconscious calculations, based on personal emotional values. That's usually good enough for small-group ethics. But when faced with global ethical repercussions, such as the Holocaust, ordinary people tend to do mundane acts (followed orders), and hope for the best. That's what Arendt called "the banality of evil".
You've never been tested in such a situation, because it is an extreme case, seldom met in real life. The Hitlers and Stalins of the world, were idealists, working toward Utopian dreams. Hence, there is no price too high to pay for Heaven-on-Earth. So their "final solutions" were not realistic, and were not calculated logically or mathematically.
“a single death is a tragedy, a million deaths are a statistic”
___Joseph Stalin
TPF : Responsibility for Correcting Evil
Re: TPF : Responsibility for Morality
I will always feel guilty that I could have done more. Do we all deserve such a self-judgment? Is it possible to be too harsh on ourselves on this issue? I don't feel I am being too harsh, it feels correct. — universeness
Sounds like you are forcing a gullt-trip on yourself. Presumably, that stems from a feeling of responsibility for the woes of the world. You may have internalized that feeling from a polarized religious or political background, or from an idealistic or perfectionist philosophical tradition. Until you can learn to accept your own imperfections, your diversionary tactics will still be haunted by the spectre of failing to live-up to your own standards, or the standards you are judged by. Impossible standards sound good in theory, but in practice they produce only angst.
Sounds like you are forcing a gullt-trip on yourself. Presumably, that stems from a feeling of responsibility for the woes of the world. You may have internalized that feeling from a polarized religious or political background, or from an idealistic or perfectionist philosophical tradition. Until you can learn to accept your own imperfections, your diversionary tactics will still be haunted by the spectre of failing to live-up to your own standards, or the standards you are judged by. Impossible standards sound good in theory, but in practice they produce only angst.
Re: TPF : Responsibility for Morality
Does the real responsibility for the way things are, lie more with the fact that good people don't do enough to combat those who are only interested in their own advancement? — universeness
“The philosophers have hitherto only interpreted the world in various ways,” he famously said. “The point, however, is to change it.”
___Karl Marx
Back to your original post --- who's responsible for the evil in the world? : A> God ; B> Politicians ; C> Philosophers ; d> You?
Marx, the philosopher, spent his life in dark, dusty libraries perfecting his theory of an ideal political & economic system. So, he relied on non-philosophers to be the cannon-fodder, who actually did the dirty, bloody work of revolution. Therefore, you need to ask yourself : are you a leader, or a bleeder, or a thinker? Who appointed you to be the next Lenin, or the next peasant soldier, shouldering the earth-moving responsibility for changing the course of the world? Did Marx or Lenin achieve their high ambitions? To move the world, you need a lever and a fulcrum.
Archimedes : lever & fulcrum
https://i0.wp.com/jacobmorch.com/wp-con ... ork-16.jpg
“The philosophers have hitherto only interpreted the world in various ways,” he famously said. “The point, however, is to change it.”
___Karl Marx
Back to your original post --- who's responsible for the evil in the world? : A> God ; B> Politicians ; C> Philosophers ; d> You?
Marx, the philosopher, spent his life in dark, dusty libraries perfecting his theory of an ideal political & economic system. So, he relied on non-philosophers to be the cannon-fodder, who actually did the dirty, bloody work of revolution. Therefore, you need to ask yourself : are you a leader, or a bleeder, or a thinker? Who appointed you to be the next Lenin, or the next peasant soldier, shouldering the earth-moving responsibility for changing the course of the world? Did Marx or Lenin achieve their high ambitions? To move the world, you need a lever and a fulcrum.
Archimedes : lever & fulcrum
https://i0.wp.com/jacobmorch.com/wp-con ... ork-16.jpg
Re: TPF : Responsibility for Correcting Evil
I doubt that public education has much to do with personal moral calculations. — Gnomon
Surely the way in which you are educated affects your moral compass. — universeness
Of course, it should. But my comment was directed at the current conflicted situation of public education in the US. For example, government-funded schools are now political battlegrounds over the teaching of "Critical Race Theory", among other academic concerns. One side seems to view it as an ethical issue regarding fair treatment of "minority" citizens. Meanwhile, the opposition treats it as a political propaganda attack on the besieged colorless race. (note -- I know nothing about the CR theory other than the label)
Up to about a century ago, secular public schools were primarily mandated to produce ethically-good citizens. But now, the teaching of good morals is left mostly to private religious organizations. So, the secular mandate of modern mind-molding is to train children to be technically-good workers. Presumably, regardless of Race, Religion, or National Origin. The attitude seems to be : the future is untainted, but history is morally compromised -- and best avoided in the presence of tender minds.
Surely the way in which you are educated affects your moral compass. — universeness
Of course, it should. But my comment was directed at the current conflicted situation of public education in the US. For example, government-funded schools are now political battlegrounds over the teaching of "Critical Race Theory", among other academic concerns. One side seems to view it as an ethical issue regarding fair treatment of "minority" citizens. Meanwhile, the opposition treats it as a political propaganda attack on the besieged colorless race. (note -- I know nothing about the CR theory other than the label)
Up to about a century ago, secular public schools were primarily mandated to produce ethically-good citizens. But now, the teaching of good morals is left mostly to private religious organizations. So, the secular mandate of modern mind-molding is to train children to be technically-good workers. Presumably, regardless of Race, Religion, or National Origin. The attitude seems to be : the future is untainted, but history is morally compromised -- and best avoided in the presence of tender minds.
Re: TPF : Responsibility for Correcting Evil
I am socialist but I don't accept your suggestion that socialism is a political polarisation. — universeness
That "suggestion" was not my personal opinion, but a reflection of the historical & current political polarization between "socialist" Liberals and "capitalist" Conservatives. Throughout history, those on the top echelons of society (owners of capital) were typically status-quo Conservatives. The Moderate mid-levels of society were content to just hang-on to their not-so-bad positions. And the huddled masses, were either passively accepting of their lot in life, or frustrated by the lead-ceilings as they tried to climb-up to the next rung in society.
For millennia, upward social mobility was mostly a pipe dream, until the Socialism & Communism & Unionism movements reacted vigorously to the inhumane conditions of smoke-stack industrialism. As long as the masses remained compliant and quiescent though, there was no political polarization. But when poverty & racism & sexism became in-your-face issues, and the divide between Haves & Have-nots became un-ignorable. Only then did the top dogs began to have their noses pushed into their own sh*t.
Traditionally, Monarchic politics was a concern of only the rich & powerful. But, when Democratic ideals began to question the morality of ancestral aristocracy, a newly-revealed chasm between top & bottom of society soon became entrenched into routine Democratic politics. Unfortunately, the hierarchical gap between rich & poor remains to this day, as a running sore in all societies. Hence, the ancient Left vs Right division between noble peers, has evolved into a Top vs Bottom polarization of minority & majority classes. Yet, political mud-slinging still labels social Liberals as commie Leftists, and economic Conservatives as fascist Right-wingers. That's why moderates in the middle must learn to duck, as the slinging now comes from left & right and top & bottom.
That "suggestion" was not my personal opinion, but a reflection of the historical & current political polarization between "socialist" Liberals and "capitalist" Conservatives. Throughout history, those on the top echelons of society (owners of capital) were typically status-quo Conservatives. The Moderate mid-levels of society were content to just hang-on to their not-so-bad positions. And the huddled masses, were either passively accepting of their lot in life, or frustrated by the lead-ceilings as they tried to climb-up to the next rung in society.
For millennia, upward social mobility was mostly a pipe dream, until the Socialism & Communism & Unionism movements reacted vigorously to the inhumane conditions of smoke-stack industrialism. As long as the masses remained compliant and quiescent though, there was no political polarization. But when poverty & racism & sexism became in-your-face issues, and the divide between Haves & Have-nots became un-ignorable. Only then did the top dogs began to have their noses pushed into their own sh*t.
Traditionally, Monarchic politics was a concern of only the rich & powerful. But, when Democratic ideals began to question the morality of ancestral aristocracy, a newly-revealed chasm between top & bottom of society soon became entrenched into routine Democratic politics. Unfortunately, the hierarchical gap between rich & poor remains to this day, as a running sore in all societies. Hence, the ancient Left vs Right division between noble peers, has evolved into a Top vs Bottom polarization of minority & majority classes. Yet, political mud-slinging still labels social Liberals as commie Leftists, and economic Conservatives as fascist Right-wingers. That's why moderates in the middle must learn to duck, as the slinging now comes from left & right and top & bottom.
Re: TPF : Responsibility for Correcting Evil
BUT WE WILL! — universeness
Bravo! That sounds much more optimistic than the OP.
I just hope your momentary enthusiasm doesn't turn into apathy, when the ideal of egalitarianism remains as far away as the horizon. I learned long ago, to lower my expectations, even as I set moderately higher goals.
Bravo! That sounds much more optimistic than the OP.
I just hope your momentary enthusiasm doesn't turn into apathy, when the ideal of egalitarianism remains as far away as the horizon. I learned long ago, to lower my expectations, even as I set moderately higher goals.
Re: TPF : Responsibility for Correcting Evil
The cosmic calendar scale's the time since the big bang to a single year.
On that scale, the past 8 thousand years scale's to only a few seconds on the cosmic calendar.
A human lifespan is currently no more than a blink of a cosmic eye.
I think that Human society will be fair and just within the next few seconds of the cosmic calendar. — universeness
For what it's worth, here's my own cosmic calendar. It shows an optimistic upward progression, despite all the physical entropy and political digressions. I attribute the upward evolution to the counter-entropy force of Enformy. Scientists call it "negentropy", but I prefer the more positive sounding term.
http://gnomon.enformationism.info/Image ... 0Graph.jpg
Enformy :
In the Enformationism theory, Enformy is a hypothetical, holistic, metaphysical, natural trend or force, that counteracts Entropy & Randomness to produce complexity & progress. [ see post 63 for graph ]
1. I'm not aware of any "supernatural force" in the world. But my Enformationism theory postulates that there is a meta-physical force behind Time's Arrow and the positive progress of evolution. Just as Entropy is sometimes referred to as a "force" causing energy to dissipate (negative effect), Enformy is the antithesis, which causes energy to agglomerate (additive effect).
2. Of course, neither of those phenomena is a physical Force, or a direct Cause, in the usual sense. But the term "force" is applied to such holistic causes as a metaphor drawn from our experience with physics.
3. "Entropy" and "Enformy" are scientific/technical terms that are equivalent to the religious/moralistic terms "Evil" and "Good". So, while those forces are completely natural, the ultimate source of the power behind them may be supernatural, in the sense that the First Cause logically existed before the Big Bang.
BothAnd Blog
On that scale, the past 8 thousand years scale's to only a few seconds on the cosmic calendar.
A human lifespan is currently no more than a blink of a cosmic eye.
I think that Human society will be fair and just within the next few seconds of the cosmic calendar. — universeness
For what it's worth, here's my own cosmic calendar. It shows an optimistic upward progression, despite all the physical entropy and political digressions. I attribute the upward evolution to the counter-entropy force of Enformy. Scientists call it "negentropy", but I prefer the more positive sounding term.
http://gnomon.enformationism.info/Image ... 0Graph.jpg
Enformy :
In the Enformationism theory, Enformy is a hypothetical, holistic, metaphysical, natural trend or force, that counteracts Entropy & Randomness to produce complexity & progress. [ see post 63 for graph ]
1. I'm not aware of any "supernatural force" in the world. But my Enformationism theory postulates that there is a meta-physical force behind Time's Arrow and the positive progress of evolution. Just as Entropy is sometimes referred to as a "force" causing energy to dissipate (negative effect), Enformy is the antithesis, which causes energy to agglomerate (additive effect).
2. Of course, neither of those phenomena is a physical Force, or a direct Cause, in the usual sense. But the term "force" is applied to such holistic causes as a metaphor drawn from our experience with physics.
3. "Entropy" and "Enformy" are scientific/technical terms that are equivalent to the religious/moralistic terms "Evil" and "Good". So, while those forces are completely natural, the ultimate source of the power behind them may be supernatural, in the sense that the First Cause logically existed before the Big Bang.
BothAnd Blog
Re: TPF : Responsibility for Correcting Evil
Looks good to me! I like the predicted exponential growth towards the rather more concerning Omega point. Concerning as Omega is the last greek letter in that particular alphabet and usually signifies an ending. — universeness
My reference was not to the Greek alphabet, but to the evolutionary theory of paleontologist Pierre Teilhard de Chardin. Other scientists, such as Frank Tipler, have used the same name for the notion of upward progression of evolution toward some final resolution. I haven't made any detailed study of the process, so my use of the "Omega Point" is pure conjecture.
However, the Inflationary instant at the beginning of the universe is also a hypothetical conjecture with no empirical evidence. Hence, the question mark. If the universe is just one phase of an eternal cosmic cycle, then the Omega Point would be the end of one rotation, and the beginning of another. But, if our universe is one-and-done, then the final state is either extinguishment, or the birth of a gestating deity -- some call it the "Cosmic Christ" -- as deChardin surmised. I don't claim to know which is correct, but I have made my guess. In any case, if evolution is indeed progressive, it should also be in the process of creating something new & different & better, in some sense.
The Omega Point is a supposed future when everything in the universe spirals toward a final point of unification.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega_Point
My reference was not to the Greek alphabet, but to the evolutionary theory of paleontologist Pierre Teilhard de Chardin. Other scientists, such as Frank Tipler, have used the same name for the notion of upward progression of evolution toward some final resolution. I haven't made any detailed study of the process, so my use of the "Omega Point" is pure conjecture.
However, the Inflationary instant at the beginning of the universe is also a hypothetical conjecture with no empirical evidence. Hence, the question mark. If the universe is just one phase of an eternal cosmic cycle, then the Omega Point would be the end of one rotation, and the beginning of another. But, if our universe is one-and-done, then the final state is either extinguishment, or the birth of a gestating deity -- some call it the "Cosmic Christ" -- as deChardin surmised. I don't claim to know which is correct, but I have made my guess. In any case, if evolution is indeed progressive, it should also be in the process of creating something new & different & better, in some sense.
The Omega Point is a supposed future when everything in the universe spirals toward a final point of unification.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega_Point
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