Phi Forum : Former Theists, avoid nihilism

[Gnomon]

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... d-nihilism

I am wondering if others who have lost their religion have found a path out of this sense of loss and underlying chaos and would care to share. — dazed

My evolution was slow and gradual : from Protestant Fundamentalism, to uncertain Agnosticism, to Scientific explorer, to Philosophical thinker, etc. But I could never accept the Atheist worldview, which has no satisfactory explanation for the perennial religious questions : Where did we come from? Why are we here? What's the meaning of life? and so on.

So, I began to develop my own personal worldview, based on a> cutting-edge science, b> state-of-the-art philosophy, and c> a select summary of the world's religious wisdom. This customized philosophy of life is not a guarantee of absolute truth, but it gives me a stable foundation of relative truths, and it seems to be a reasonable guide to living in an imperfect world surrounded by mysteries. It avoids the extremes of Optimism and Pessimism, by adopting a moderate attitude of Pragmatism.

I call my worldview Enformationism, because it is an update of ancient Materialism and Spiritualism, with Quantum Age understanding that Information is more essential to reality than Matter or Energy. As a religious philosophy, it can be labeled : PanEnDeism : the assumption that everything is contained within the eternal-infinite Mind of what I call G*D, with no historical prejudices or anthro-morphic presumptions. Like the Codex of Pfhorest, this serves as my framework for morality and for meaning. Perhaps you can also construct your own path out of confusion and nihilism.


Enformationism definition : http://blog-glossary.enformationism.info/page8.html

PanEnDeism definition : http://blog-glossary.enformationism.info/page16.html

Enformationism thesis : http://enformationism.info/enformationism.info/

[Gnomon]

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... ent/343237

From my lips to goober's goober! As if to order - no waiting, curbside delivery here TPF - homebrewed Blue Pill woo courtesy of :zip: — 180 Proof


THE RED PILL MEME

If you're a New Ager who,
is looking for woo,
Then Enformationism
is not for you.

The choice of pills red or blue
have nothing to do,
but allow you to change your
attitude.

If it's magic you pursue,
look inside of you,
where miracles are seen in
inner view.

The outer world you construe
can only be moved
by machine and muscle, not by
psychetude*.

And G*D only helps those who
help themselves to
what they desire and need by
homebrew.

Note : Sorry for the ill-formed poor-etry. Phew! I was running out of "woo" rhymes.

* Psychetude : http://sepinwall.blogspot.com/2006/03/w ... etude.html

FWIW : Enformationism has some similarities to New Age worldviews, but it specifically denies any mind-over-matter magic and divine-intervention miracles.

[Gnomon]

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... ent/343237

When we embrace nihilism, I think we learn to face the reality that everyone is still trying to figure all of this out, and then learn to draw from each other’s experiences not only the courage to explore, but also the missing information that will help us to more accurately map those aspects of reality that are less objectively certain - in particular what is valuable and what it all means. — Possibility

Your description sounds more like positive Stoicism than negative Nihilism. Rather than rejecting reality, Stoicism embraces the world, warts and all. The focus is on developing personal virtue instead of retreating into "bah-humbug" cynicism.

[Gnomon]

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... ihilism/p2

I am wondering if others who have lost their religion have found a path out of this sense of loss and underlying chaos and would care to share. — dazed

My evolution was slow and gradual : from Protestant Fundamentalism, to uncertain Agnosticism, to Scientific explorer, to Philosophical thinker, etc. But I could never accept the Atheist worldview, which has no satisfactory explanation for the perennial religious questions : Where did we come from? Why are we here? What's the meaning of life? and so on.

So, I began to develop my own personal worldview, based on a> cutting-edge science, b> state-of-the-art philosophy, and c> a select summary of the world's religious wisdom. This customized philosophy of life is not a guarantee of absolute truth, but it gives me a stable foundation of relative truths, and it seems to be a reasonable guide to living in an imperfect world surrounded by mysteries. It avoids the extremes of Optimism and Pessimism, by adopting a moderate attitude of Pragmatism.

I call my worldview Enformationism, because it is an update of ancient Materialism and Spiritualism, with the Quantum Age understanding that Information is more essential to reality than Matter or Energy. As a religious philosophy, it can be labeled : PanEnDeism : the assumption that everything is contained within the eternal-infinite Mind of what I call G*D, with no historical prejudices or anthro-morphic presumptions. Like the Codex of Pfhorest, this serves as my framework for morality and for meaning. Perhaps you can also construct your own path out of confusion and nihilism.


Enformationism definition : http://blog-glossary.enformationism.info/page8.html

PanEnDeism definition : http://blog-glossary.enformationism.info/page16.html

Enformationism thesis : http://enformationism.info/enformationism.info/

[Gnomon]

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... ihilism/p2

From my lips to goober's goober! As if to order - no waiting, curbside delivery here TPF - homebrewed Blue Pill woo courtesy of :zip: — 180 Proof


THE RED PILL MEME

If you're a New Ager who,
is looking for woo,
Then Enformationism
is not for you.

The choice of pills red or blue
have nothing to do,
but allow you to change your
attitude.

If it's magic you pursue,
look inside of you,
where miracles are seen in
inner view.

The outer world you construe
can only be moved
by machine and muscle, not by
psychetude*.

And G*D only helps those who
help themselves to
what they desire and need by
homebrew.

Note : Sorry for the ill-formed poor-etry. Phew! I was running out of "woo" rhymes.

* Psychetude : http://sepinwall.blogspot.com/2006/03/w ... etude.html

FWIW : Enformationism has some similarities to New Age worldviews, but it specifically denies any mind-over-matter magic and divine-intervention miracles.

[Gnomon]

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... ihilism/p2

When we embrace nihilism, I think we learn to face the reality that everyone is still trying to figure all of this out, and then learn to draw from each other’s experiences not only the courage to explore, but also the missing information that will help us to more accurately map those aspects of reality that are less objectively certain - in particular what is valuable and what it all means. — Possibility

Your description sounds more like positive Stoicism than negative Nihilism. Rather than rejecting reality, Stoicism embraces the world, warts and all. The focus is on developing personal virtue instead of retreating into "bah-humbug" cynicism.

[Gnomon]

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... ihilism/p2

Nihilism can be rejecting reality, sure - but it can also be rejecting and being sceptical of any particular interpretation of reality as truth. Stoicism doesn’t necessarily allow for the same level of skepticism, but some of their approach may be seen as a helpful path out of nihilism, I suppose. — Possibility

A healthy dose of skepticism is necessary for those who want to think for themselves rather than be led by the nose via Faith. But when it becomes the core principle of your life, Skepticism tends to deteriorate into unhealthy sneering Cynicism (in the modern sense of contemptuous, pessimistic, and generally distrustful of people's motives).

Another alternative to negative Nihilism is Existentialism*1. It is especially appropriate for Dazed's situation, because it is intended to be a rational response to "losing one's faith" -- that, despite the ups & downs of life, the world is in the firm control of a loving God. When they lose that childlike faith in a heavenly father, many people become despondent, because they have been taught to distrust their own reason and emotional resources. So, they have to grow-up and learn to take responsibility for themselves as moral agents.

As a Christian, I didn't understand Existentialism. It seemed to be a pessimistic worldview. But I now know that it is, if not exactly optimistic, positive and realistic. It accepts that God does not really intervene in the world on behalf of the faithful. And that there may be no heavenly hereafter. What we see instead is that bad things happen to good people, and all too often bad people prosper on the backs of the good. But that's no reason to give-up moral behavior. Yes, Nature is red in tooth and claw, and life lives upon life (lions eat little lambs). Yes, the world is not ideal, in the sense that my personal interests are also God's interests. So, those who are "woke" to the fact that God is not caring for us as individuals, then we have to learn to look-out for our own interests -- while respecting the interests of others, of course. It's an independent mature worldview, as opposed to the dependent naive attitude of those who feel lost without God.

My current worldview however, has developed beyond Stoic Existentialism, because I now believe that the world is evolving in a positive direction*2, and that I have personal control over my own character and attitude. So, I can have a reasonably happy life, despite the exigencies of impartial reality*3. Ironically, the theory of Evolution, despised by many religious believers, reveals that natural processes are both Random (Fatalistic) and Orderly (Selection). Which means that moral agents have the power to choose (Will) their own path through the tangled jungle of the amoral world. Some existentialists actually believed in God (Kierkegaard), but only in an abstract sense. And I have replaced the perplexing bible-god with a more scientifically plausible First Cause (G*D)*4. So, that's my path out of Nihilism and Despair.


*1 Existentialism : a philosophical theory or approach which emphasizes the existence of the individual person as a free and responsible agent determining their own development through acts of the will.

*2 Intelligent Evolution : http://gnomon.enformationism.info/Essay ... 120106.pdf

*3 Impartial Reality : the real world is fair & balanced (Yin/Yang) in the sense that it treats all things randomly, and is "no respecter of persons".

*4 G*D : http://blog-glossary.enformationism.info/page13.html

[Gnomon]

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... ihilism/p3

An even deeper engagement would involve caring about causes, positive societal change, the greater good. I used to be engaged and care about trying to better things (when I was a theist). Now I have no interest in those things because I can't define what positive or good would really mean on a macro scale. I just stick to the micro where it is usually more easy to define what is good for those I actually interact with. — dazed

Sounds like you might be an Introvert, as I am, and the church was your only arena of social engagement. The suggestion to get involved in "politics" and "causes" is good advice for extroverts, but not so much for innies.

Nevertheless, there are ways for introverts to socialize without stress. Internet forums, for example, seem to be a "god-send" for those who tend to avoid clamorous public situations. One philosophical forum I was on for several years, seemed to have an unusually high proportion of people with various psychological and physical disabilities : from depression, to palsy, to schizophrenia. Such psycho-physical issues don't reduce your intelligence, but they do tend to keep you on the fringes of society. The key feature of forums is they let you have a meeting of minds (preferably one at a time) without meeting in person or in crowds. This limits the interpersonal complexities that sometimes overwhelm us turtles. You don't even have to display a photo avatar if you don't want to.

If you are also feeling depressed, whether clinically or mildly, just the feedback from non-judgmental (except for a few trolls) forum or group members can ease you into feeling comfortable about expressing your beliefs and feelings. If you are also existentially depressed, due to the feeling that the world is going to hell, you might find some non-religious rational solace in an article I just came across [link below].


5 Books That Explain Why It Seems the World Is So Fucked : https://markmanson.net/5-books-that-exp ... -so-fucked

[Gnomon]

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... ihilism/p3

I wonder what you’re arguing against here - I’m not advocating Nihilism or Existentialism as core principles at all, but as a useful path for dazed to break this attachment to certainty or infallible authority. — Possibility

I'm arguing against the typical definition of Nihilism : "the rejection of all religious and moral principles, in the belief that life is meaningless." Google

I assume you are thinking of extreme skepticism as a way to start all over with no preconceptions . . . a way to reboot your belief system. That's essentially what Descartes tried to do, but it was only a thought experiment, not a way of life. Nihilism is a pretty extreme approach to a new worldview. It seems to imagine that you can purge all former beliefs, and begin anew with a blank slate. But that sounds unlikely, due to the way the human mind works. Nietzsche said a lot of provocative things, but I doubt that even he was that radical in his personal life.

Perhaps you can give me a more positive and reasonable definition of Nihilism.

[Gnomon]

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... d-nihilism

I do seem to still care about making the world a better place. but for me what's missing is the underlying structure and framework that allowed me to make sense of what making the world a better place meant — dazed

Christianity set the bar too high for mortal humans. By their standards, we are all abject sinners.

The dark cynical attitude that no one really cares about anything except Self-Interest, might brighten-up if you find the right depression drugs, or the right group of caring people. Like AA meetings, just sharing with others in the same boat seems to help. If you care, maybe others do too. You'll just need to look for the meaningful Qualia hidden under the mathematical Quanta.

If you're looking for an alternative to traditional religions, maybe you should delve into Deism. It's not a formal religion, but a general religious philosophy that acknowledges the necessity for a First Cause creator. There's no holy book, no carved-in-stone rules, and no myths of afterlife to entice you to endure the suffering of the present world. Unfortunately, also no religious meetings to offer mutual emotional support. It's a god-helps-those-who-help-themselves attitude. At the risk of sounding elitist, it's an artificial religion substitute for intellectuals : like Voltaire and Ben Franklin. If Deism is not for you, maybe some form of Buddhism, such as Zen.

I have created my own personal worldview in order to provide structure and framework for making sense of a world that is still under development. No faith required, but a long-range rational view of how the world works is necessary to see the sensible order and positive direction of Evolution. It requires looking at the scientific evidence from a different perspective. It only appeals to rational pragmatic people who look for clues at the scene of the crime : of creating an imperfect world that requires motivation to keep putting one foot in front of the other.


Deism : http://blog-glossary.enformationism.info/page12.html

PanEnDeism : http://blog-glossary.enformationism.info/page16.html

Neo-Deism : http://blog-glossary.enformationism.info/page15.html

Beism : http://blog-glossary.enformationism.info/page10.html

Enformationism : http://enformationism.info/enformationism.info/