TPF : Quantum Entanglement Holistic

[Gnomon]

Quantum Entanglement is Holistic?
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... ent/837542

The recent publication of a cutting-edge physics experiment revealed that entangled photons returned a holographic image that looks identical to the Yin/Yang symbol of Taoism and Holism. The article was quickly reproduced in other publications, but I was surprised that no one expressed surprise at the irony that a state-of-the-art Western scientific photographic technique produced an image traditionally used to symbolically portray the holistic philosophical worldview of an ancient Eastern philosophy.

Since the philosophy of Holism is typically considered to be antithetical to the method of Reductionism, characteristic of Western Science, I thought this presumably-objective evidence might provide fodder for a calm intellectual dialog on this rational philosophical forum. BTW, the "holographic" heading below is intended to be both provocative and tongue-in-cheek. The relevant question here : is the image a mere coincidence or a consonance?

PS__A secondary question that might be illuminated : is this forum polarized along physics vs metaphysics, eastern vs western, science vs philosophy lines on an evocative topic like this? Or is it open to Consilience, as suggested by beleaguered biologist E. O. Wilson?

PPS__Tertiary question : Is a wave-function a physical particle or a symbolic-metaphysical-mental-mathematical concept, or . . . . ?

YIN/YANG PHYSICS & SEMIOLOGY
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Holographic image reveals Holistic nature of Nature :
Researchers at the University of Ottawa, . . . . recently demonstrated a novel technique that allows the visualization of the wave function of two entangled photons, the elementary particles that constitute light, in real-time.
https://phys.org/news/2023-08-visualizi ... otons.html

Consilience : agreement between the approaches to a topic of different academic subjects, especially science and the humanities.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consilience_(book)

Entanglement is a mysterious quantum phenomenon that is widely, but mistakenly, described as capable of transmitting information over vast distances faster than the speed of light. It has proved very popular with science writers, philosophers of science, and many scientists who hope to use the mystery to deny some of the basic concepts underlying quantum physics. Beyond this claim, which violates the principle of relativity, is the claim that entanglement "connects" every particle in the universe with every other particle, implying a "holistic" or "implicate" order in the universe, which is popular with "new age" thinkers and other mystics who see in it pan-psychism, or "cosmic consciousness," or at a minimum "telepathic powers" between entangled minds.
https://www.informationphilosopher.com/proble

[Gnomon]

After slogging through the original paper (link - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41566-023-01272-3#Fig2) I think I've sort of figured it out. Not certain. If I'm right, you've misunderstood what's really going on. The input to the experiment was the image of the yin/yang symbol. It was disrupted and then recreated using the new holographic/entangled photon technique. Somebody else take a look and see if they think I'm right. — T Clark

Is it your understanding that the scientists took a picture of a cultural symbol, and published it as-if it's a picture of two photons orbiting each other?*4 If so, was it a joke on gullible New Agers?*5 Or were they deliberately trying to deceive us ignorant Philosophers? Either way, it's unprofessional behavior. Please post a quote from your source that says "The input to the experiment was the image of the yin/yang symbol", so we can "take a look".

The articles I've seen don't mention that they started with a yin/yang symbol as input. But the article*1 below says : "This leaves scientists with the onerous task of painstakingly weeding out nonsensical, unphysical states, an effort that can take hours or even days depending on a system's complexity.
To get around this, the researchers used holography to encode information from higher dimensions into manageable, lower-dimensional chunks". That sounds pretty devious in itself. Especially, since the particular nature of a photon seems to be imaginary*2, as a way to envision a mathematical wave consisting of abstract numbers, not concrete matter.

The "real space" images*3 below portray a single photon (i.e. wavefunction) in the form of concentric rings, as we might imagine an elementary particle. But the image covers the evolution of the wavefront over time. So, it's not exactly a snap-shot.

In the OP I noted that I was not taking this "coincidence" seriously, but with tongue-in-cheek. One purpose was to see if others would also take it with good humor. So far, so-so.

*1. Quantum 'yin-yang' shows two photons being entangled in real-time :
Scientists have used a first-of-its-kind technique to visualize two entangled light particles in real time — making them appear as a stunning quantum "yin-yang" symbol.
https://www.livescience.com/physics-mat ... -real-time

*2. Is the photon really a particle? :
Photons deliver their energy and momentum to a point on a material target. It is commonplace to attribute this to particle impact. But since the in-flight photon also has a wave nature, we are stuck with the paradox of wave-particle duality. It is argued here that the photon’s wave nature is indisputable, but its particle nature is open to question.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 2621003983

*3. Real-space image of the photon part of the wave function :
Real-space-image-of-the-photon-part-of-the-wave-function-showing-evolution-of-a-Gaussian.png
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Rea ... g1_6769263

*4. PEPPERONI STAR HOAX
chorizo.jpg?ve=1&tl=1
https://www.fox5ny.com/news/scientist-a ... of-chorizo

*5. JOY Joke's On You
61ZX9TZwo9L._AC_UF350,350_QL80_.jpg

[Gnomon]

No, you've completely misunderstood. As punos noted:
They made a bad choice in using the taiji because gullible new-agers could so easily jump to the incorrect conclusion without understanding the substance of the experiment. — T Clark

I certainly don't understand why an attempt to create an image of a "physical" object would require the inclusion of a completely unrelated image. Which part of the published picture are we supposed to identify with the entangled wavefunctions? Even if the swirling dots are supposed to be entwined photons, what scientific meaning are we supposed to learn from the image? An artist could have done the same with much less technological tomfoolery. Were the scientists themselves "gullible new-agers" trying to send a message to blind black-&-whiters?

The whole idea of photographing photons sounds like trying to catch lightning in a klein bottle. I watched Anton's video clip, but I'm still confused*1. I'd still like to see a quote from the article you referenced ; to help me understand why they needed an image within the image. Not because I'm a New Ager, but because I'm an amateur philosopher, who is interested in both Quantum Physics and Causal Information. It's kind of my thing on this forum.

*1. Is he accusing the scientists of stupidity or deliberate deception?
@GIRGHGH : For anyone still confused, what he's basically saying is that it's a fancy photograph of a literal physical object.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f4yAIj9ZL8
Note -- Is he implying that a photon is not a "literal physical object"?

yin-yang-made-of-glowing-particles-spinning-loop-with-the-stars-flying-in-space-background.jpg?s=640x640&k=20&c=srasnomv17uY-XFuS0VveDLS9iOYDpOnE1FARJK55AI=

[Gnomon]

Gnomon, Fritjof Capra has talked about this subject extensively since 1975 in his famous book "The Tao of Physics: An Exploration of the Parallels Between Modern Physics and Eastern Mysticism" — Alkis Piskas

Yes, I'm familiar with Capra's seminal work. But, I doubt that even he, as a physicist, would imagine that entangled photons would graphically resemble an ancient symbol of harmony & balance.

“Physicists do not need mysticism,” Dr. Capra says, “and mystics do not need physics, but humanity needs both.”

[Gnomon]

Here's a figure from the article from which you've clipped your yin/yang symbol. It shows the black and white input image and the colored output. Note the size, measured as 4mm, or about 1/4 inch. This does not show entangled photons, it shows the recreation of an image. — T Clark

Maybe, maybe not. The 4mm may be measuring the object under scrutiny, or the photographic image produced by the equipment. Some labels would help.

I'm still more interested in why a legitimate scientist would take a picture of a common symbol and try to pass it off as a picture of a mathematical wavefunction. Are you accusing them of falsification of scientific results, or of proffering a hoax as a joke?

I'd like to think the image is truly what the scientists claim. But now I'm more inclined to think it's a joke, in poor taste. Maybe time will tell. It could prove to be just another example of quantum weirdness, or of human ridiculousness.

[Gnomon]

Yet, this is not the point. We are talking about just a visualization. Nothing more. — Alkis Piskas

Yes. I had imagined quantum entanglement as random noise, and the dis-entangled particle as a recognizable image. It never occurred to me that a tangle of photons would look like a Taoist symbol.

OBJECT EMERGING FROM NOISY BACKGROUND
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[Gnomon]

Maybe, maybe not. The 4mm may be measuring the object under scrutiny, or the photographic image produced by the equipment. Some labels would help. — Gnomon
No sense going on any further. You should be ashamed of yourself. — T Clark

Since you are reading-into the "4mm", a prejudiced meaning which is not expressed in the image, who should be ashamed? If you can produce evidence to support your "reading", I will retract my attribution of "prejudice".


PS__What is it about Yin/Yang concept that puts you on the offensive? Does Holism somehow contradict your faith in Reductive Science?

[Gnomon]

The input to the experiment was the image of the yin/yang symbol — T Clark
Seems to be the case as far as I can determine. Difficult reading. — jgill

↪T Clark didn't respond to my request for the source of his information/opinion about the intentional use of the YY symbol as input instead of as output of the holographic method. Will you post where & how you determined that is the case? Did you interpret the symbolic image as an error of judgment, or a deliberate hoax?

Some posters are asserting that it's just another "Jesus image on toast", but the Yin/Yang symbol is not so subtle, even to skeptics & unbelievers. And the contentious Holistic implication*1 is obvious in the spurious arguments against its legitimacy. Yet, the article says that this provocative image was produced by named Phototonic researchers, not by anonymous bong-smoking hippies. Anyway, my reason for posting is to see if religious or anti-religious prejudices would clearly divide the responses on a philosophical forum. So far, it seems to bring out defensive or ridiculing arguments from one side, and approving or so-what's-new comments from the other.

But a key issue is the intent of the researchers. If it was a deliberate hoax, then shame on them. If it was an unanticipated result, then shame on the accusers. I assume the "truth will out" eventually. But another example may be instructive. Since the general "scientific" consensus in the early 20th century was that the universe had existed eternally, or at least continually-self-creating ; I suspect that Edwin Hubble did not anticipate that his astronomical evidence of an expanding universe would eventually lead to a generally accepted theory of a "creation event" or even an "origin point of space-time" --- leaving it vulnerable to preternatural arguments.

And that divide among scientists & philosophers continues to this day. I don't expect this minor Yin Yang Bang will go down in history next to the cosmic Big Bang. But as I implied in the OP, it does provide a see-saw point for polarized forum arguments.


*1. Yin Yang Holism : not anti-science, but alternative to comprehensive Reductionism

[Gnomon]

Frankly, I don't know what's going on here. But at the beginning of the paper
: Here we introduce biphoton digital holography, in analogy to off-axis digital holography, where coincidence imaging of the superposition of an unknown state with a reference state is used to perform quantum state tomography.
This stuff is way beyond me. — jgill

Thanks for the reference. The technical stuff is beyond me too. But the references to three different "states" provides fodder for speculation. The "unknown state" must be the entangled photons, and the "quantum state" might be the mathematical wavefunction. But the "reference state" is a mystery.

↪T Clark seemed to be certain that the researchers took a picture of a YinYang symbol and passed it off as a picture of entangled photons. Perhaps he saw "reference state" and inferred that it was the Taoist symbol. The implication seems to be A> they are hoaxing gullible New Agers, or B> the scientists did not realize that combining a Holistic symbol with a Reductive science project might cause a philosophical commotion. And the latter is what prompted me to start this thread.

[Gnomon]

Did you interpret the symbolic image as an error of judgment, or a deliberate hoax? — Gnomon
Isn't that a false dichotomy?
Maybe a stunt to get a lot of attention to their paper? Maybe one of the researchers is into Taoism? Maybe a target that was handy and interesting enough? — wonderer1

My question was not a dichotomy. Merely an incomplete list of unknown possibilities. Maybe they are Alien beings trying to sow discord among PF posters . . .