Philo Forum : Destiny & Determinism

[Gnomon]

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... ent/432089

The destiny behind free will: boom this is deep stuff!

My problem with the Christian position on hell is that God creates humanity knowing the majority of them will end up in hell. He might surely have reason to allow it (so the saved can have greater spiritual benefits), but I thought creation reflects his nature. It seems to me that his nature is defective if he can't create a world where everyone goes to heaven and has all the spiritual benefits they could imagine. I'm working on this question from an atheistic perspective — Gregory


Yes. The Calvinist Predestination interpretation of creation never made any sense to me. And Hell is obviously a scare-tactic invented by provoked prophets & preachy priests to control their incorrigible straying flocks. That's the imaginary stick to curb "bad" behavior, and Heaven is the hypothetical carrot that we strive for. Yet, it still seems unlikely that the world created itself. And according to our current understanding, it began in an unformed state, neither good nor bad. Since humans arrived on the scene though, we have learned how to modify Nature to suit our needs & desires. And, seeing that we can make things better, some of us have imagined a perfect happy ending, to compensate for the imperfections of daily life : Utopia or Heaven.

With that as a background, my pragmatic Panendeist worldview assumes, from circumstantial evidence, that a (non-biblical) Creator, or First Cause or Logos, programmed the physical universe to function as a living organism, evolving via a trial & error learning process toward some, yet to be determined, final state *1. However, for us temporary creatures, the process of living & learning is more important than the end product of this cosmic "experiment", or "game" *2. The Programmer or Experimenter put us in this iffy situation, so there is no reason to expect to be "saved" from our assigned role in the game . The experiment is not about us as individuals --- we are simply means to an end *3. Yet, as a team, we can try to make it a win-win game --- good for all --- instead of win-lose : Heaven for me, Hell for you.

I don't know what the final score of this ongoing creative process will be, but it seems to involve the gradual emergence of more & more intelligent creatures, capable of contemplating their own provenance . Unlike an ant farm though, we are entities with a sense of self, so humans can choose a path that is determined not just by instinct, but by reason & self-interest. A talent for self-improvement seems to be essential for our minor roles in this cosmic research project. Hence Religion (moral), Philosophy (mental), & Science (technical) advances are indications of progress in cultural evolution. And that historical trend of positive growth in individual & collective mental & moral function is a sign of Progression-of and Intention-behind the mechanism of evolution. *4

In my view, the "nature" of an eternal immaterial creative Principle (Logos) is neither Good nor Evil, but includes the omni-potential to create a natural system with choices that can be construed by us "lab rats" (or "players" or "actors") as positive or negative, relative to personal needs and desires. And as a species, humans seem to be still on the uphill side of the learning curve. You can call this worldview “Science Fiction” if you like. But, for me it's merely a way of understanding how & why the world works as it does. The "Problem of Evil" is for humanity to work out as best they can. And each of us must play our role to the best of our ability, by contributing to a positive outcome.

An omnipotent deity should indeed be able to create a perfect unchanging world, but that would be Heaven. And nothing notable would happen there --- no drama, no room for improvement --- just strumming harps all day. Would you sign up for that . . . forever? Unfortunately, that's not an option. So I simply work with the situation I find myself in. And, all told, it's not so bad . . . for me at least.

*1 Evolutionary Programming : http://blog-glossary.enformationism.info/page13.html

*2 “It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game.” ___Grantland Rice

*3 Means to an end : However, Panendeism assumes that, in a literal sense, the universe is G*D, or at least made of god-stuff (information). If so, humans are integral parts of G*D. And each of us has a meaningful role to play in the evolution of G*D. But our physical bodies are not built for eternity. So, this brief spark in the dark may be as close as we will ever come to eternal life. No Heaven, no Hell, just Now. Each person's final destiny is indeterminate, but Now is determined by your next choice.

*4 Moral evolution : for those skeptical or cynical of moral progress, check out Steven Pinker's Enlightenment Now, The Case For Reason, Science, Humanism, and Progress.

Note : Sorry, I got on a roll, and started preaching. Can I get an amen!

[Gnomon]

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... ent/432546

Causality, Determination and such stuff.

The standard philosophical prejudice is that given an accurate enough account of the position of the box and a given ball, a competent physicist will be able to tell us which of the bins across the bottom the ball will land in. . . . . The notion that the universe is determined fails. — Banno

Many years ago, I visited the Seattle World's Fair, and came across a large display of a Galton Box or Quincunx, [image below]. The adjacent sign says : "when the falling balls are observed one-by-one the path of each is unpredictable, but taken many by many they form an orderly predictable pattern". This is a graphic illustration of order within randomness. The overall bell-shaped pattern at the bottom is predictable, and seems to be predestined by statistical laws of Probability. However, one of the white ping-pong balls was painted red, and it landed in a different location after each randomized ball-drop. That exception to the rule seems to imply that there is Freedom Within Determinism.

Obviously, ping-pong balls have no freewill, but the Galton Machine reveals a tiny glitch in statistical determinism : there are exceptions to the Normal or Average pattern. Therefore, philosophers who interpret Physics as Fatalistic are wrong. Instead, I take this graphic illustration of Probability to mean that there is a possibility of Individual Freewill Within General Determinism. The future course of the physical universe was indeed fixed at the moment of the Big Bang, with all laws & constants established, and with an unbroken chain of cause & effect. And yet, self-conscious reasoning humans seem to be able to manipulate the laws of Nature to their own ends. Scientists call it "Technology", but I call it "Freewill" : the ability to deny Destiny.

Rationalism vs Fatalism : http://bothandblog2.enformationism.info/page67.html

Determinism : “Determinism is a long chain of cause & effect, with no missing links.
Freewill is when one of those links is smart enough to absorb a cause and modify it before passing it along. In other words, a self-conscious link is a causal agent---a transformer, not just a dumb transmitter. And each intentional causation changes the course of deterministic history to some small degree.” ___Yehya

Galton Quincunx Machine :
Galton%20Board%20World%20Fair%2050%20(2019_07_22%2001_41_54%20UTC).jpg

Galton Box in Motion : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Galton_box.webm