TPF : Creation Stories

[Gnomon]

Do both parts of the ying-yang always exist? Are they opposites which have existence as a constantly common characteristic, or could one of the opposites actually never exist (is there a scenario where there is only ying or only yang)? — Daniel

I can't speak for Taoists. But in my worldview, the natural world is inherently dualistic. It's as-if the Big Bang Singularity was a fertilized Ovum, which divided via Meiosis/Mitosis, and has continued to divide ever since into the myriad "forms most beautiful", as described by Darwin. The first division converted Eternity-Infinity into Space-Time. Then came Matter/Energy, and so forth & so on, right on down to the essential Male/Female distinction that is necessary for most reproduction..

So it seems that everything in the Real world has its opposite. In Physics, that same notion is called "Symmetry". And one example is the assumption that every Electron (matter) is balanced by a Positron (anti-matter). But in reality, the symmetry (balance) is not perfect, in which case the world would be static and unchanging. Hence, the world maintains a dynamic see-saw balance between opposites.

Ironically, a perfectly balanced universe would leave no room for Free Will. That may be why the Epicurean philosopher Lucretius postulated a "Swerve" or "asymmetry", which allowed some freedom for Change in the world. The Yin Yang symbol illustrates that principle, by including dots of the opposite color within each lobe of the circle.

Moreover, even the hypothetical holistic Singularity, would necessarily possess the Potential for duality & opposition. If you want to go even further back into pre-existence, even G*D (ALL) would have the creative power to multiply the fish & loaves (so to speak) into enough to feed the multitude. Yet, for all practical purposes, the Yin Yang opposition is a characteristic only of our imperfect Reality. Perhaps though, as an optimistic speculation, it is evolving toward ultimate perfection at the Omega Point.

Cosmic Symmetry : The symmetry of the universe would bake us in no time at all, but an asymmetry rescues us.
https://slate.com/technology/2013/08/sy ... exist.html

The Swerve : Lucretius’ arguments on the swerve and free-action
https://philpapers.org/archive/EVALAO.pdf

https://image.shutterstock.com/image-il ... 353486.jpg

https://www.featurepics.com/StockImage/ ... 149037.jpg

[Gnomon]

Just to be super clear my opposites are simply existence vs non-existence. — Thinking

That is indeed the ultimate opposition. That's why I say that BEING (power to exist) is the ultimate Truth. But, apparently, absolute BEING somehow became split into Existence vs Non-Existence. The possibility of non-existence is inherent in the Life or Death duality of our world.

And it's also pertinent to my understanding that Information is fundamental to our reality. In Information theory, the number One represents Existence (something), while the symbol Zero represents Non-existence (nothing). Everything else we know in Reality is some variation on that same essential opposition, which places us into a competitive situation : Live or Die, Succeed or Fail, Win or Lose . But the secret to happiness, not just survival, is find the BothAnd (win-win) sweet-spot between those extremes.

[Gnomon]

Do both parts of the ying-yang always exist? Are they opposites which have existence as a constantly common characteristic, or could one of the opposites actually never exist (is there a scenario where there is only ying or only yang)? — Daniel

Dan. This is an afterthought or postscript to your question.

The existence of a Yin without its complementary Yang would be like finding a Magnetic Monopole. All magnets have two poles. But some theorists imagine that a Monopole should exist somewhere out in the physical universe. Of course, in imagination, anything is possible. But Yin-Yang is not a physical thing. It's a metaphysical concept. To remove the Yin from the Yang would be like playing on a See without the Saw.

Magnetic Monopole : A magnetic monopole is the magnetic version of a charged particle like an electron, and for the last 70 years physicists have believed that one might exist somewhere in the universe.
https://phys.org/news/2016-08-mysteriou ... opole.html

[Gnomon]

So the monopole thing is an example of us just not finding a thing we know is there... — Mick Wright

OK. When you find it, let me know, and I'll use a different allegory.

[Gnomon]

Do both parts of the ying-yang always exist? Are they opposites which have existence as a constantly common characteristic, or could one of the opposites actually never exist (is there a scenario where there is only ying or only yang)? — Daniel

I can't speak for Taoists. But in my worldview, the natural world is inherently dualistic. It's as-if the Big Bang Singularity was a fertilized Ovum, which divided via Meiosis/Mitosis, and has continued to divide ever since into the myriad "forms most beautiful", as described by Darwin. The first division converted Eternity-Infinity into Space-Time. Then came Matter/Energy, and so forth & so on, right on down to the essential Male/Female distinction that is necessary for most reproduction..

So it seems that everything in the Real world has its opposite. In Physics, that same notion is called "Symmetry". And one example is the assumption that every Electron (matter) is balanced by a Positron (anti-matter). But in reality, the symmetry (balance) is not perfect, in which case the world would be static and unchanging. Hence, the world maintains a dynamic see-saw balance between opposites.

Ironically, a perfectly balanced universe would leave no room for Free Will. That may be why the Epicurean philosopher Lucretius postulated a "Swerve" or "asymmetry", which allowed some freedom for Change in the world. The Yin Yang symbol illustrates that principle, by including dots of the opposite color within each lobe of the circle.

Moreover, even the hypothetical holistic Singularity, would necessarily possess the Potential for duality & opposition. If you want to go even further back into pre-existence, even G*D (ALL) would have the creative power to multiply the fish & loaves (so to speak) into enough to feed the multitude. Yet, for all practical purposes, the Yin Yang opposition is a characteristic only of our imperfect Reality. Perhaps though, as an optimistic speculation, it is evolving toward ultimate perfection at the Omega Point.

Cosmic Symmetry : The symmetry of the universe would bake us in no time at all, but an asymmetry rescues us.
https://slate.com/technology/2013/08/sy ... exist.html

The Swerve : Lucretius’ arguments on the swerve and free-action
https://philpapers.org/archive/EVALAO.pdf

https://image.shutterstock.com/image-il ... 353486.jpg

https://www.featurepics.com/StockImage/ ... 149037.jpg

[Gnomon]

Just to be super clear my opposites are simply existence vs non-existence. — Thinking

That is indeed the ultimate opposition. That's why I say that BEING (power to exist) is the ultimate Truth. But, apparently, absolute BEING somehow became split into Existence vs Non-Existence. The possibility of non-existence is inherent in the Life or Death duality of our world.

And it's also pertinent to my understanding that Information is fundamental to our reality. In Information theory, the number One represents Existence (something), while the symbol Zero represents Non-existence (nothing). Everything else we know in Reality is some variation on that same essential opposition, which places us into a competitive situation : Live or Die, Succeed or Fail, Win or Lose . But the secret to happiness, not just survival, is find the BothAnd (win-win) sweet-spot between those extremes.

[Gnomon]

Do both parts of the ying-yang always exist? Are they opposites which have existence as a constantly common characteristic, or could one of the opposites actually never exist (is there a scenario where there is only ying or only yang)? — Daniel

Dan. This is an afterthought or postscript to your question.

The existence of a Yin without its complementary Yang would be like finding a Magnetic Monopole. All magnets have two poles. But some theorists imagine that a Monopole should exist somewhere out in the physical universe. Of course, in imagination, anything is possible. But Yin-Yang is not a physical thing. It's a metaphysical concept. To remove the Yin from the Yang would be like playing on a See without the Saw.

Magnetic Monopole : A magnetic monopole is the magnetic version of a charged particle like an electron, and for the last 70 years physicists have believed that one might exist somewhere in the universe.
https://phys.org/news/2016-08-mysteriou ... opole.html

[Gnomon]

Ying/Yang models fail to recognise that there are granulations of processes which are neither good nor bad or left or right... — Mick Wright

Actually, the Yin-Yang model does "recognize" gradients of dichotomies. That's the meaning of the black spot in the white lobe, and the white spot in the black lobe. The world is pulled-apart by competing forces, but neither is strong-enough to overcome completely. That's because each side contains some of the power (seed) of its opposite. So, instead of a black & white world, we see shades of gray.

Taijitu : The dots represent the seed of yin within yang and the seed of yang within yin; the idea that neither can exist without the other.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taijitu

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ng.svg.png

[Gnomon]

So the monopole thing is an example of us just not finding a thing we know is there... — Mick Wright

OK. When you find it, let me know, and I'll use a different allegory.