Given all those caveats, I think there's a case to be made for a type of dualism. Perhaps it could be argued that consciousness is 'the capacity for experience' in an allegorical manner to energy as 'the capacity for work'// and that physical matter, in the absence of consciousness, lacks the capacity for experience. So that the emergence of organisms is also the emergence of the capacity for experience, which is absent in the non-organic domain.// — Wayfarer
I like that analogy. Mostly because it aligns with my own little reductive thesis, that everything in the universe is a form of Energy, in the sense of Causation, and from the perspective of information theory1. Complexity/panoply is ultimately simplicity.
Since Einstein equated Matter (Mass) with Energy (E=MC^2), most of us on this forum have come to accept the counter-intuitive notion that invisible intangible Energy/Force can transform*2 into the visible tangible matter-substance-stuff that our physical senses are attuned to. And since Shannon equated knowable Information with Entropy/Uncertainty, we can now trace the emergence of the "capacity for experience" back to the primal "capacity for work" (for change, causation).
Mental experience (knowing, awareness) is mostly an encounter with Change (difference) in the environment. Those Transformations (changes in physical form) are due to the Causal power --- ability to do the work of metamorphosis (a change of the form or nature of a thing). That natural constructive/destructive power is merely Energy (EnFormAction*3) in its various forms (light, heat, impulse, etc). And those bits of experience (knowledge) are recordings in the brain/mind of minor changes in the environment. Collectively, we call those incoming bits & bytes of potential experience : "Information" (meaning, relative to self).
I apologize for using your analogy to discuss my own unfamiliar mashup of Energy & Information & Consciousness. I'm still looking for ways to make such arcane sub-atomic science understandable for philosophical purposes. Now, back to your regular program.
PS__The thesis ultimately compresses the conventional dualism of Mind/Brain into the monism of Universal Causation (the power to enform).
*1. Formation : to cause changes in structure, both positive & negative
To "inform" is to introduce a formative (causal) principle into a mind. To "enform" is to inject a causal (formative) principle into a material object.
*2. Transform : make a thorough or dramatic change in the form, appearance, or character of.
Abstract Energy (light, heat) is a wave form, alternating from maximum to minimum, and passing through a zero point in between. Compression of the wave intensifies the energy value. When compressed to a degree defined by the cosmic constant ("C"), now known as the vacuum energy density, it apparently "squeezes" the nothingness of vacuum into the measurable Mass of Matter. The result is a complete transformation of abstract Potential into concrete Actual. Magic? No, Science.
*3. EnFormAction :
Ententional Causation. A proposed metaphysical law of the universe that causes random interactions between forces and particles to produce novel & stable arrangements of matter & energy.
https://blog-glossary.enformationism.info/page8.html
TPF : Consciousness Studies
Re: TPF : Consciousness Studies
I read about the idea of a central processing hub a while back. It would take sensory cues, models, learned and innate reflexes, hopes, fears, etc. and smush it together somehow. — frank
Yes. Daniel Dennett derisively labeled that hypothetical "central processing hub" as the Cartesian Theatre. And the "hub" was portrayed as a homunculus (little man in the head). Materialist scientists are still looking in vain for a central processor in the brain.
INFINITE REGRESS OF CONCEPTION
Infinite_regress_of_homunculus.png
But if the cultural pendulum swings back toward thinking of ideas as some sort of stuff, or an interaction between stuff, then ideas would take their place among the material of materialism like gravity did. — frank
Gravity --- spooky action at a distance --- is often imagined as-if it's a material substance, and portrayed in images as a two dimensional grid in space. But in reality, there is no physical "tractor beam" out in space, pulling heavy objects toward each other. That's why Einstein defined it as an invisible mathematical relationship, not a tangible "fabric" with hills & valleys. Those are merely metaphors --- like the sentient homunculus --- to aid us in conceiving of something otherwise inconceivable, because immaterial.
WARPED FABRIC OF EMPTY SPACE
19776455-gravity-3d-illustration-object-affecting-space-time-and-other-objects-motion.jpg
Yes. Daniel Dennett derisively labeled that hypothetical "central processing hub" as the Cartesian Theatre. And the "hub" was portrayed as a homunculus (little man in the head). Materialist scientists are still looking in vain for a central processor in the brain.
INFINITE REGRESS OF CONCEPTION
Infinite_regress_of_homunculus.png
But if the cultural pendulum swings back toward thinking of ideas as some sort of stuff, or an interaction between stuff, then ideas would take their place among the material of materialism like gravity did. — frank
Gravity --- spooky action at a distance --- is often imagined as-if it's a material substance, and portrayed in images as a two dimensional grid in space. But in reality, there is no physical "tractor beam" out in space, pulling heavy objects toward each other. That's why Einstein defined it as an invisible mathematical relationship, not a tangible "fabric" with hills & valleys. Those are merely metaphors --- like the sentient homunculus --- to aid us in conceiving of something otherwise inconceivable, because immaterial.
WARPED FABRIC OF EMPTY SPACE
19776455-gravity-3d-illustration-object-affecting-space-time-and-other-objects-motion.jpg
Re: TPF : Consciousness Studies
It's not an analogy, it's a proposition. The difficulty with your thesis being that energy does not itself exhibit a 'capacity for experience', it acts without any such capacity, which is specific to consciousness. And to say that consciousness is a product of matter-energy is falling back to philosophical materialism. You're not going to arrive at anything like an explanation for where consciousness fits in the grand scheme by equating it with energy (or information, for that matter.) — Wayfarer
I'm sorry, if my equation of Energy & Mind annoys you. But, that's exactly why my thesis*1 is based on metaphysical Information instead of physical Energy. I sometimes call it "directed energy", or "causal energy", or "encoded energy", and sometimes "enforming principle"*2. But my primary alternative to the randomized matter-morphing Energy of Physics, is the notion of EnFormAction*3, which includes mental phenomena among its effects. Unfortunately, I have to repeatedly remind TPF posters that the original meaning of the word "Information", was " knowledge and the ability to know". Also, the relationship between metaphysical (mental) Information & physical (causal) Energy*4 is a recent discovery in science, hence not well known.
The Enformationism thesis is indeed intended to be an explanation for how metaphysical Consciousness could emerge from physical Evolution --- naturally and without divine intervention*5. Moreover, immaterial causal encoded Energy (EnFormAction) is proposed as the agent-of-Awareness in a material world. Unfortunately, that hypothesis is so far from the current dominant worldview, that it is counter-intuitive for those who are only familiar with Claude Shannon's narrow pragmatic definition of "information". So, I keep plugging away, to convey the notion that the reductive Physics definition of "Energy" captures only one aspect of its multifunction roles in the Real and Ideal realms of the World System. One eventual & eventful effect of that natural Causation is the mysterious emergence of mental phenomena in a constantly morphing material world.
PS__The gap-bridging monistic BothAnd principle*6 --- implicit in the EnFormAction concept --- is difficult for both dualistic-or-monistic Materialists and Spiritualists to accept.
*1. Enformationism :
A worldview or belief system grounded on the assumption that Information (Form), rather than Matter (Hyle), is the basic substance (essence) of everything in the universe. It is intended to be a 21st century update of the ancient paradigms of Materialism and Spiritualism.
https://enformationism.info/enformation ... lcome.html
*2. Ultimate Enforming Principle :
A major dispute is that of Matter versus Spirit. The Bible describes God as a “spirit”, but the modern concept of Energy (a form of information) --- as an invisible power --- was not even a gleam in the eye of the Bronze Age scribes. Nevertheless, both Ward and I have used the novel Information Age notion of flowing data bits, pioneered by Claude Shannon, and many quantum physicists, as an analog of those invisible ancient agents known as ghosts & spirits.
https://bothandblog5.enformationism.info/page24.html
*3. What is EnFormAction? :
The BothAnd Principle is a corollary to the thesis of Enformationism, in that it is a mashup of both Materialism and Spiritualism, of both Science and Religion, of both Empirical and Theoretical methods. The novel concept of Enformation is also a synthesis of both Energy and Information. So I invented a new portmanteu word to more precisely encapsulate that two-in-one meaning : “EnFormAction”. In this case though, the neologism contains three parts : “En” for Energy, “Form” for Shape or Structure or Design, and “Action” for Change or Causation. But Energy & Causation are basically the same thing. And the “En-” prefix is typically used to indicate that which causes a thing to be in whatever state or form or condition is referred to.
https://bothandblog2.enformationism.info/page29.html
*4. Information as Energy :
The literal equivalence of physical energy and mental information is still a fringe notion among scientists. But it has many credentialed champions, including Paul Davies, editor of the book noted above. Energy = Information (power to cause changes in Form).
https://blog-glossary.enformationism.info/page8.html
*5. Preternatural LOGOS :
So, I’ll skip the history lesson, and focus mainly on the emerging secular notion of some force behind Nature that functions like an “invisible hand”, guiding humanity toward a more inclusive “moral circle”. This god-like guide is not conceived in anthro-morphic mythical terms, but more like Plato’s philosophical creative principle, the Logos.
https://bothandblog6.enformationism.info/page47.html
*6. Both/And Principle :
My coinage for the gap-bridging holistic principle of Complementarity, as illustrated in the Yin/Yang symbol. Opposing or contrasting concepts are always part of a greater whole.
https://blog-glossary.enformationism.info/page10.html
I'm sorry, if my equation of Energy & Mind annoys you. But, that's exactly why my thesis*1 is based on metaphysical Information instead of physical Energy. I sometimes call it "directed energy", or "causal energy", or "encoded energy", and sometimes "enforming principle"*2. But my primary alternative to the randomized matter-morphing Energy of Physics, is the notion of EnFormAction*3, which includes mental phenomena among its effects. Unfortunately, I have to repeatedly remind TPF posters that the original meaning of the word "Information", was " knowledge and the ability to know". Also, the relationship between metaphysical (mental) Information & physical (causal) Energy*4 is a recent discovery in science, hence not well known.
The Enformationism thesis is indeed intended to be an explanation for how metaphysical Consciousness could emerge from physical Evolution --- naturally and without divine intervention*5. Moreover, immaterial causal encoded Energy (EnFormAction) is proposed as the agent-of-Awareness in a material world. Unfortunately, that hypothesis is so far from the current dominant worldview, that it is counter-intuitive for those who are only familiar with Claude Shannon's narrow pragmatic definition of "information". So, I keep plugging away, to convey the notion that the reductive Physics definition of "Energy" captures only one aspect of its multifunction roles in the Real and Ideal realms of the World System. One eventual & eventful effect of that natural Causation is the mysterious emergence of mental phenomena in a constantly morphing material world.
PS__The gap-bridging monistic BothAnd principle*6 --- implicit in the EnFormAction concept --- is difficult for both dualistic-or-monistic Materialists and Spiritualists to accept.
*1. Enformationism :
A worldview or belief system grounded on the assumption that Information (Form), rather than Matter (Hyle), is the basic substance (essence) of everything in the universe. It is intended to be a 21st century update of the ancient paradigms of Materialism and Spiritualism.
https://enformationism.info/enformation ... lcome.html
*2. Ultimate Enforming Principle :
A major dispute is that of Matter versus Spirit. The Bible describes God as a “spirit”, but the modern concept of Energy (a form of information) --- as an invisible power --- was not even a gleam in the eye of the Bronze Age scribes. Nevertheless, both Ward and I have used the novel Information Age notion of flowing data bits, pioneered by Claude Shannon, and many quantum physicists, as an analog of those invisible ancient agents known as ghosts & spirits.
https://bothandblog5.enformationism.info/page24.html
*3. What is EnFormAction? :
The BothAnd Principle is a corollary to the thesis of Enformationism, in that it is a mashup of both Materialism and Spiritualism, of both Science and Religion, of both Empirical and Theoretical methods. The novel concept of Enformation is also a synthesis of both Energy and Information. So I invented a new portmanteu word to more precisely encapsulate that two-in-one meaning : “EnFormAction”. In this case though, the neologism contains three parts : “En” for Energy, “Form” for Shape or Structure or Design, and “Action” for Change or Causation. But Energy & Causation are basically the same thing. And the “En-” prefix is typically used to indicate that which causes a thing to be in whatever state or form or condition is referred to.
https://bothandblog2.enformationism.info/page29.html
*4. Information as Energy :
The literal equivalence of physical energy and mental information is still a fringe notion among scientists. But it has many credentialed champions, including Paul Davies, editor of the book noted above. Energy = Information (power to cause changes in Form).
https://blog-glossary.enformationism.info/page8.html
*5. Preternatural LOGOS :
So, I’ll skip the history lesson, and focus mainly on the emerging secular notion of some force behind Nature that functions like an “invisible hand”, guiding humanity toward a more inclusive “moral circle”. This god-like guide is not conceived in anthro-morphic mythical terms, but more like Plato’s philosophical creative principle, the Logos.
https://bothandblog6.enformationism.info/page47.html
*6. Both/And Principle :
My coinage for the gap-bridging holistic principle of Complementarity, as illustrated in the Yin/Yang symbol. Opposing or contrasting concepts are always part of a greater whole.
https://blog-glossary.enformationism.info/page10.html
Re: TPF : Consciousness Studies
Not according to the Oxford Dictionary online edition. It says the first use of the term was in relation to: accusatory or incriminatory intelligence against a person — Wayfarer
Perhaps, instead of original meaning of "information" I should have said "the pre-Shannon usage of 'information' " referred to the contents of a Mind. I wasn't talking about a particular dictionary definition, but to traditional usage over the years as indicated in synonyms : instruction, intelligence*1, knowledge, message.
The distinction I was trying to make is between Shannon's definition of "information" in terms of the meaningless carrier/container, as opposed to the message/content : meaning. The container of Shannon's Information is a material substance of some kind (neuron), but the content is immaterial knowledge (idea, meaning). Hence, the meaningful content of a bit of Information is mind-stuff. And a "bit" is a binary digit, expressed as a mathematical ratio*2. Which, incidentally is the root of "Reason" and "Rational".
*1. Intelligence has been defined in many ways: the capacity for abstraction, logic, understanding, self-awareness, learning, emotional knowledge, reasoning, planning, creativity, critical thinking, and problem-solving. _____Wikipedia
Note --- For the purposes of my thesis, I refer to the various usages of "intelligible information" as contrasted with Shannon's "conveyable information".
*2. Information :
Knowledge and the ability to know. Technically, it's the ratio of order to disorder, of positive to negative, of knowledge to ignorance. It's measured in degrees of uncertainty. Those ratios are also called "differences". So Gregory Bateson* defined Information as "the difference that makes a difference". The latter distinction refers to "value" or "meaning". Babbage called his prototype computer a "difference engine". Difference is the cause or agent of Change. In Physics it’s called "Thermodynamics" or "Energy". In Sociology it’s called "Conflict".
https://blog-glossary.enformationism.info/page11.html
Perhaps, instead of original meaning of "information" I should have said "the pre-Shannon usage of 'information' " referred to the contents of a Mind. I wasn't talking about a particular dictionary definition, but to traditional usage over the years as indicated in synonyms : instruction, intelligence*1, knowledge, message.
The distinction I was trying to make is between Shannon's definition of "information" in terms of the meaningless carrier/container, as opposed to the message/content : meaning. The container of Shannon's Information is a material substance of some kind (neuron), but the content is immaterial knowledge (idea, meaning). Hence, the meaningful content of a bit of Information is mind-stuff. And a "bit" is a binary digit, expressed as a mathematical ratio*2. Which, incidentally is the root of "Reason" and "Rational".
*1. Intelligence has been defined in many ways: the capacity for abstraction, logic, understanding, self-awareness, learning, emotional knowledge, reasoning, planning, creativity, critical thinking, and problem-solving. _____Wikipedia
Note --- For the purposes of my thesis, I refer to the various usages of "intelligible information" as contrasted with Shannon's "conveyable information".
*2. Information :
Knowledge and the ability to know. Technically, it's the ratio of order to disorder, of positive to negative, of knowledge to ignorance. It's measured in degrees of uncertainty. Those ratios are also called "differences". So Gregory Bateson* defined Information as "the difference that makes a difference". The latter distinction refers to "value" or "meaning". Babbage called his prototype computer a "difference engine". Difference is the cause or agent of Change. In Physics it’s called "Thermodynamics" or "Energy". In Sociology it’s called "Conflict".
https://blog-glossary.enformationism.info/page11.html
Re: TPF : Consciousness Studies
I'm sorry, if my equation of Energy & Mind annoys you — Gnomon
It doesn’t annoy me, but I’m not persuaded by it. — Wayfarer
I suppose you are also not persuaded by Max Tegmark's thesis of a Mathematical Universe. Besides being anathema to the worldview of Materialism, that notion is counter-intuitive to the matter/energy sensing human brain. I'm not sure what term you would prefer, to refer to the fundamental element/essence/substance of the universe (Mind ; Spirit ?). However, mathematics is not a physical substance out there in the world, but a way of modeling the world in the human Mind. My notion of Causal Information is similar, except that it is not just inert statistics, but dynamic ever-changing physics.
In James Glattfelder's book, Information-Consciousness-Reality, he devotes a chapter to the topic : A Universe Built of Information. There, he quotes editor/publisher of science books, John Horgan : "The everything-is-information meme violates common sense". Yet, Glattfelder concludes in the epilogue : "I believe in the computational engine of the universe --- reality's information-theoretic ontology. I believe that consciousness shares the same innate essence as the 'material' " {my bold} And, according to Einstein, the essence of Matter/Mass is Energy*1. But where did the cosmos-creating power of the Big Bang come from?
Not from within space-time, apparently. Hence, there must be something more eternal/essential/fundamental than physical Energy. That ultimate quintessence is what I call EnFormAction, and it necessarily existed prior to the Big Bang : as causal & organizing Potential. Without that motivational-directional-integrating impetus, nothing in the Actual world would exist : not even the dust of Entropy.
Obviously, we don't sense Matter & Energy as the same thing ; they have different physical properties & effects. But they share a formal relationship to some more fundamental essence. In my thesis, I refer to that essence as The Power to Enform, abbreviated as Information, or more technically as EnFormAction*2. What may not be so obvious is that I'm using a common word, "Information", in an uncommon sense : the ability to cause change, and to organize isolated parts into meaningful wholes. From that perspective, EnformAction is Energy + Laws. I usually avoid calling that magical power "divine" though, because that's a "woo word" and a dialog stopper. Instead, I refer to it anonymously by Plato's non-anthro-morphic term : "LOGOS".
For me, the Source of all power in the universe remains a mystery, beyond the scope of empirical Science. So, I can't persuade you with hard facts, only metaphors & analogies & reasoning.
*1. Energy - Matter equivalence :
It's the world's most famous equation, but what does it really mean? "Energy equals mass times the speed of light squared." On the most basic level, the equation says that energy and mass (matter) are interchangeable; they are different forms of the same thing.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/einstein/ ... 2expl.html
*2. EnFormAction :
*** Metaphorically, it's the Will-power of G*D, which is the First Cause of everything in creation. Aquinas called the Omnipotence of God the "Primary Cause", so EFA is the general cause of every-thing in the world. Energy, Matter, Gravity, Life, Mind are secondary creative causes, each with limited application.
*** All are also forms of Information, the "difference that makes a difference". It works by directing causation from negative to positive, cold to hot, ignorance to knowledge. That's the basis of mathematical ratios (Greek "Logos", Latin "Ratio" = reason). A : B :: C : D. By interpreting those ratios we get meaning and reasons. The ability to know & interpret the non-self world is what we call Awareness or Consciousness : to make distinctions ; to parse random complexity into meaningful patterns.
*** The concept of a river of causation running through the world in various streams has been interpreted in materialistic terms as Momentum, Impetus, Force, Energy, etc, and in spiritualistic idioms as Will, Love, Conatus, and so forth. EnFormAction is all of those.
https://blog-glossary.enformationism.info/page8.html
It doesn’t annoy me, but I’m not persuaded by it. — Wayfarer
I suppose you are also not persuaded by Max Tegmark's thesis of a Mathematical Universe. Besides being anathema to the worldview of Materialism, that notion is counter-intuitive to the matter/energy sensing human brain. I'm not sure what term you would prefer, to refer to the fundamental element/essence/substance of the universe (Mind ; Spirit ?). However, mathematics is not a physical substance out there in the world, but a way of modeling the world in the human Mind. My notion of Causal Information is similar, except that it is not just inert statistics, but dynamic ever-changing physics.
In James Glattfelder's book, Information-Consciousness-Reality, he devotes a chapter to the topic : A Universe Built of Information. There, he quotes editor/publisher of science books, John Horgan : "The everything-is-information meme violates common sense". Yet, Glattfelder concludes in the epilogue : "I believe in the computational engine of the universe --- reality's information-theoretic ontology. I believe that consciousness shares the same innate essence as the 'material' " {my bold} And, according to Einstein, the essence of Matter/Mass is Energy*1. But where did the cosmos-creating power of the Big Bang come from?
Not from within space-time, apparently. Hence, there must be something more eternal/essential/fundamental than physical Energy. That ultimate quintessence is what I call EnFormAction, and it necessarily existed prior to the Big Bang : as causal & organizing Potential. Without that motivational-directional-integrating impetus, nothing in the Actual world would exist : not even the dust of Entropy.
Obviously, we don't sense Matter & Energy as the same thing ; they have different physical properties & effects. But they share a formal relationship to some more fundamental essence. In my thesis, I refer to that essence as The Power to Enform, abbreviated as Information, or more technically as EnFormAction*2. What may not be so obvious is that I'm using a common word, "Information", in an uncommon sense : the ability to cause change, and to organize isolated parts into meaningful wholes. From that perspective, EnformAction is Energy + Laws. I usually avoid calling that magical power "divine" though, because that's a "woo word" and a dialog stopper. Instead, I refer to it anonymously by Plato's non-anthro-morphic term : "LOGOS".
For me, the Source of all power in the universe remains a mystery, beyond the scope of empirical Science. So, I can't persuade you with hard facts, only metaphors & analogies & reasoning.
*1. Energy - Matter equivalence :
It's the world's most famous equation, but what does it really mean? "Energy equals mass times the speed of light squared." On the most basic level, the equation says that energy and mass (matter) are interchangeable; they are different forms of the same thing.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/einstein/ ... 2expl.html
*2. EnFormAction :
*** Metaphorically, it's the Will-power of G*D, which is the First Cause of everything in creation. Aquinas called the Omnipotence of God the "Primary Cause", so EFA is the general cause of every-thing in the world. Energy, Matter, Gravity, Life, Mind are secondary creative causes, each with limited application.
*** All are also forms of Information, the "difference that makes a difference". It works by directing causation from negative to positive, cold to hot, ignorance to knowledge. That's the basis of mathematical ratios (Greek "Logos", Latin "Ratio" = reason). A : B :: C : D. By interpreting those ratios we get meaning and reasons. The ability to know & interpret the non-self world is what we call Awareness or Consciousness : to make distinctions ; to parse random complexity into meaningful patterns.
*** The concept of a river of causation running through the world in various streams has been interpreted in materialistic terms as Momentum, Impetus, Force, Energy, etc, and in spiritualistic idioms as Will, Love, Conatus, and so forth. EnFormAction is all of those.
https://blog-glossary.enformationism.info/page8.html
Re: TPF : Consciousness Studies
As such, the Latin term “ratio” does not pivot on maths and computations – it certainly doesn’t equate to mathematical ratios in the modern sense of "ratio". Instead, this Latin term's meaning pivots on something far closer to discernment and, thereby, all that can result from and is implied by faculties of discernment (to include judgments, awareness of purpose(s), plans, and mathematical properties and relations, among many other possibilities). — javra
Thanks for the clarification. However, I was not making a statement about the Latin language, but about the modern usage of the term "ratio". Synonyms range from fraction, quotient, & percentage to proportion, balance, & relationship. It's also the root of "Rational", pertaining to Logic & Reason. All of those terms, and many more, convey particular aspects of the general concept of "Information" (the power to enform ; to create novel knowable things). And they are also related to "Logic" & "Reason" as functional features of human Consciousness. Anyway, I was just trying to make a point about the ubiquity of universal Information (bits) : from Math to Meaning to Physics (it from bit).
It from Bit Theory :
In 1990, Wheeler suggested that information is fundamental to the physics of the universe. According to this "it from bit" doctrine, all things physical are information-theoretic in origin:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Archibald_Wheeler
Note --- Before Shannon, "information" referred only to "things mental". Now it encompasses "all things", both physical and metaphysical.
Immaterial & Material Information :
"It from bit symbolizes the idea that every item of the physical world has at bottom — at a very deep bottom, in most instances — an immaterial source and explanation; that what we call reality arises in the last analysis from the posing of yes-no questions and the registering of equipment-evoked responses . . ."
https://philpapers.org/archive/WHEIPQ.pdf
Thanks for the clarification. However, I was not making a statement about the Latin language, but about the modern usage of the term "ratio". Synonyms range from fraction, quotient, & percentage to proportion, balance, & relationship. It's also the root of "Rational", pertaining to Logic & Reason. All of those terms, and many more, convey particular aspects of the general concept of "Information" (the power to enform ; to create novel knowable things). And they are also related to "Logic" & "Reason" as functional features of human Consciousness. Anyway, I was just trying to make a point about the ubiquity of universal Information (bits) : from Math to Meaning to Physics (it from bit).
It from Bit Theory :
In 1990, Wheeler suggested that information is fundamental to the physics of the universe. According to this "it from bit" doctrine, all things physical are information-theoretic in origin:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Archibald_Wheeler
Note --- Before Shannon, "information" referred only to "things mental". Now it encompasses "all things", both physical and metaphysical.
Immaterial & Material Information :
"It from bit symbolizes the idea that every item of the physical world has at bottom — at a very deep bottom, in most instances — an immaterial source and explanation; that what we call reality arises in the last analysis from the posing of yes-no questions and the registering of equipment-evoked responses . . ."
https://philpapers.org/archive/WHEIPQ.pdf
Re: TPF : Consciousness Studies
I'm not sure what term you would prefer, to refer to the fundamental element/essence/substance of the universe (Mind ; Spirit ?) — Gnomon
I am very wary of the attempt to identify some putative ultimate in objective terms. But those terms do make sense in the context of the cultures and traditions in which they were meaningful. I suppose in terms of an ostensible ultimate, I could assent to 'dharma', which is from the Indic root meaning 'what holds together'. There are convergences between 'dharma' and 'logos'. — Wayfarer
I too, am cautious about speaking of philosophical Ultimate postulations on a mostly proximate-minded Materialistic forum. But in discussions about Mind & Consciousness, the question of Origins frequently comes up. So, I have used a variety of wiggle-words to describe a concept that is literally out-of-this-world : pre-Big-Bang & Pre-Space-Time. At first, I merely added an ambiguous asterisk to the common word for The Ultimate : G*D. But I also occasionally use some traditional philosophical terms, such as LOGOS & TAO, to describe the ineffable enforming-organizing power behind the scenes of this organic-orderly world, that somehow produces meaningful Order (patterns) out of random Chaos (noise).
I also avoid attributing such anthro-morphic characteristics as Goodness & Mercy to the creative force behind the program of heuristic Evolution (Nature). Which is often distinguished from intentional development (Culture) as "red in tooth & claw". The Tao is described as "harmonious", but that's merely an Ideal that is seldom found in a world divided between Predator & Prey. Instead, the world being created by the Tekton or Demiurge follows a meandering path that is globally balanced, but locally erratic. The "design" of this world is indeed Intelligent (logical), but not necessarily Good (emotional) from the perspective of its flesh & blood inhabitants. So, I refer to the long-running Cosmic Program of Emergence as "Intelligent Evolution". That's because it includes natural Laws (of unknown etiology) that guide it past heuristic accidents toward an unforseeable Ultimate Output.
From the viewpoint of the Enformationism thesis though, I refer to the presumptive creator (First Cause) of the evolutionary program, running on the physical computer we call the Universe, by the functional description : Programmer or Enformer. This non-traditional notion derives from modern sciences, including Evolutionary Programming, Quantum Physics, and Information Theory. And the fundamental element/essence of all those sciences is, not just inert Data, but causal Information (Energy + Law). You won't find these novel ideas in textbooks or dictionaries, because they are new & unproven, and possibly unprovable. And their only value is for philosophical speculation on ultimate questions.
TAO :
the absolute principle underlying the universe, combining within itself the principles of yin and yang and signifying the way, or code of behavior, that is in harmony with the natural order.
___Oxford dictionary
Note --- My thesis presents a neologism for the principle of Yin/Yang : BothAnd.
LOGOS :
When Aristotle talks about logos, he’s referring to ‘reasoned discourse’ or ‘the argument’.
https://boords.com/ethos-pathos-logos/w ... -with-gifs
Note : I view the gradually evolving world as an on-going "argument" on an unknown topic. We don't know the original question, but we experience the pros & cons as the heuristic process of discovery, that we call "Evolution". The trend seems to be generally toward Complexity, but with inherent Contradictions.
DHARMA :
(in Indian religion) the eternal and inherent nature of reality, regarded in Hinduism as a cosmic law underlying right behavior and social order. ---Oxford dictionary
Note --- What Science calls "natural law", the ancients labelled as Tao, Dharma, or Logos. In each case, the Law is an ideal that is often broken by willful humans, with the gift of Consciousness.
I am very wary of the attempt to identify some putative ultimate in objective terms. But those terms do make sense in the context of the cultures and traditions in which they were meaningful. I suppose in terms of an ostensible ultimate, I could assent to 'dharma', which is from the Indic root meaning 'what holds together'. There are convergences between 'dharma' and 'logos'. — Wayfarer
I too, am cautious about speaking of philosophical Ultimate postulations on a mostly proximate-minded Materialistic forum. But in discussions about Mind & Consciousness, the question of Origins frequently comes up. So, I have used a variety of wiggle-words to describe a concept that is literally out-of-this-world : pre-Big-Bang & Pre-Space-Time. At first, I merely added an ambiguous asterisk to the common word for The Ultimate : G*D. But I also occasionally use some traditional philosophical terms, such as LOGOS & TAO, to describe the ineffable enforming-organizing power behind the scenes of this organic-orderly world, that somehow produces meaningful Order (patterns) out of random Chaos (noise).
I also avoid attributing such anthro-morphic characteristics as Goodness & Mercy to the creative force behind the program of heuristic Evolution (Nature). Which is often distinguished from intentional development (Culture) as "red in tooth & claw". The Tao is described as "harmonious", but that's merely an Ideal that is seldom found in a world divided between Predator & Prey. Instead, the world being created by the Tekton or Demiurge follows a meandering path that is globally balanced, but locally erratic. The "design" of this world is indeed Intelligent (logical), but not necessarily Good (emotional) from the perspective of its flesh & blood inhabitants. So, I refer to the long-running Cosmic Program of Emergence as "Intelligent Evolution". That's because it includes natural Laws (of unknown etiology) that guide it past heuristic accidents toward an unforseeable Ultimate Output.
From the viewpoint of the Enformationism thesis though, I refer to the presumptive creator (First Cause) of the evolutionary program, running on the physical computer we call the Universe, by the functional description : Programmer or Enformer. This non-traditional notion derives from modern sciences, including Evolutionary Programming, Quantum Physics, and Information Theory. And the fundamental element/essence of all those sciences is, not just inert Data, but causal Information (Energy + Law). You won't find these novel ideas in textbooks or dictionaries, because they are new & unproven, and possibly unprovable. And their only value is for philosophical speculation on ultimate questions.
TAO :
the absolute principle underlying the universe, combining within itself the principles of yin and yang and signifying the way, or code of behavior, that is in harmony with the natural order.
___Oxford dictionary
Note --- My thesis presents a neologism for the principle of Yin/Yang : BothAnd.
LOGOS :
When Aristotle talks about logos, he’s referring to ‘reasoned discourse’ or ‘the argument’.
https://boords.com/ethos-pathos-logos/w ... -with-gifs
Note : I view the gradually evolving world as an on-going "argument" on an unknown topic. We don't know the original question, but we experience the pros & cons as the heuristic process of discovery, that we call "Evolution". The trend seems to be generally toward Complexity, but with inherent Contradictions.
DHARMA :
(in Indian religion) the eternal and inherent nature of reality, regarded in Hinduism as a cosmic law underlying right behavior and social order. ---Oxford dictionary
Note --- What Science calls "natural law", the ancients labelled as Tao, Dharma, or Logos. In each case, the Law is an ideal that is often broken by willful humans, with the gift of Consciousness.
Re: TPF : Consciousness Studies
I'm not sure what term you would prefer, to refer to the fundamental element/essence/substance of the universe (Mind ; Spirit ?) — Gnomon
I am very wary of the attempt to identify some putative ultimate in objective terms. — Wayfarer
As an aside, I'll mention that both of us seem to take broad moderate positions on the Realism vs Idealism and Materialism vs Spiritualism spectrum. Yet, we have crossed an invisible line in the sand, drawn by adherents of the non-religious belief system known as Scientism. Hence, any mention of woo-words like "spirit" can tag you with attributed beliefs that are associated with the "wrong" end of that spectrum. That's because those with polarized views of "ultimates", often see moderates as tending toward the opposite side.
Unfortunately, any metaphysical worldview (an -ism, like Materialism) can be turned into a dogmatic cult/religion by gurus who are motivated to gather admiring followers, who don't think for themselves. For example, even the literally rational (ratio-based) Mathematics of Pythagoras became a sort of religious cult, when an abstract idealized metaphysical concept became encrusted in physical metaphors about such innocuous things as reincarnating beans.
Although mathematical physicist/cosmologist, Max Tegmark, is treading on the ideal side of modern worldviews, I'm not aware of any cult following that has emerged from his Platonic notion of a mathematical universe . . . yet. My own one-man, information-focused, belief system does not have any of the emotional appeal necessary for a popular religion . . . yet.
Pythagoreanism :
Society remembers Pythagoras as a mathematician and not as a charismatic cult leader. However, the two go hand in hand. Pythagoras believed in sacred mathematics and thought that the universe could be understood through numbers. Pythagoreanism was more than a cult of numero-philes. They believed in metempsychosis (reincarnation), embraced an egalitarian communal lifestyle, and practiced a rigid set of daily rituals and dietary restrictions. The cult also believed in universal music or harmony of the spheres, wherein it was believed that the movements of celestial bodies were a form of music.
https://www.thecollector.com/cult-of-pythagoras/
I am very wary of the attempt to identify some putative ultimate in objective terms. — Wayfarer
As an aside, I'll mention that both of us seem to take broad moderate positions on the Realism vs Idealism and Materialism vs Spiritualism spectrum. Yet, we have crossed an invisible line in the sand, drawn by adherents of the non-religious belief system known as Scientism. Hence, any mention of woo-words like "spirit" can tag you with attributed beliefs that are associated with the "wrong" end of that spectrum. That's because those with polarized views of "ultimates", often see moderates as tending toward the opposite side.
Unfortunately, any metaphysical worldview (an -ism, like Materialism) can be turned into a dogmatic cult/religion by gurus who are motivated to gather admiring followers, who don't think for themselves. For example, even the literally rational (ratio-based) Mathematics of Pythagoras became a sort of religious cult, when an abstract idealized metaphysical concept became encrusted in physical metaphors about such innocuous things as reincarnating beans.
Although mathematical physicist/cosmologist, Max Tegmark, is treading on the ideal side of modern worldviews, I'm not aware of any cult following that has emerged from his Platonic notion of a mathematical universe . . . yet. My own one-man, information-focused, belief system does not have any of the emotional appeal necessary for a popular religion . . . yet.
Pythagoreanism :
Society remembers Pythagoras as a mathematician and not as a charismatic cult leader. However, the two go hand in hand. Pythagoras believed in sacred mathematics and thought that the universe could be understood through numbers. Pythagoreanism was more than a cult of numero-philes. They believed in metempsychosis (reincarnation), embraced an egalitarian communal lifestyle, and practiced a rigid set of daily rituals and dietary restrictions. The cult also believed in universal music or harmony of the spheres, wherein it was believed that the movements of celestial bodies were a form of music.
https://www.thecollector.com/cult-of-pythagoras/
Re: TPF : Consciousness Studies
There's something else, though. To truly penetrate or understand the nature of being (I prefer 'being' to 'reality' in this context) requires a re-orientation or a change to one's way of being - walking the walk. That is what philosophical praxis (distinct from theoria) requires. — Wayfarer
I suppose my philosophical journey is also focused more on the abstract "nature of being" than on "Reality", in the usual materialistic sense. But it's mostly a bloodless intellectual search for meaning, deficient in passionate pursuit. And that dispassionate quest is lacking any formal Praxis. I was never directly exposed to Hinduism or Buddhism in my youth. And while others of my generation were experiencing the joys of Hippie virtues, I was in southeast Asia "killing the little yellow man". I never personally killed anyone, but I suppose I had the cloaks of killers "laid at my feet". Philosophy was not part of my "being" until I retired from Reality, and had time to spare for Ideal pointless pursuits.
How did you add the "Reveals" to your post? I didn't know it was an option.
Quote :
For Hadot...the means for the philosophical student to achieve the “complete reversal of our usual ways of looking at things” epitomized by the Sage were a series of spiritual exercises. These exercises encompassed all of those practices still associated with philosophical teaching and study: reading, listening, dialogue, inquiry, and research. However, they also included practices deliberately aimed at addressing the student’s larger way of life, and demanding daily or continuous repetition: practices of attention (prosoche), meditations (meletai), memorizations of dogmata, self-mastery (enkrateia), the therapy of the passions, the remembrance of good things, the accomplishment of duties, and the cultivation of indifference towards indifferent things...
Exercise! That require motivation. So, I exercise restraint in exercising.
1. "Repetition" : Sounds like prayer beads, which is not an element of my religious tradition.
2. "Attention" : That may be my weak point, due to a mild case of ADD
3. "Meditation" : Post-military, I went through a meditation phase while attending a super-liberal hippie-ish local Unity Church. I practiced what they called Alpha-Theta meditation, which was monitored by an EEG machine. I was able to peg the needle, but no big deal. I also tried a sensory-deprivation float tank. In the dark dank tank, my ADD mind never shut-down, but attended to peripheral sensations, such as water dripping. Bottom line : I didn't find the meditative state much different from my normal passionless introverted state of mind.
4. "Dogmata" : I left behind the "dogmas " of my fundamentalist raising. And have never found any new religious doctrines to replace them. I suppose you could say that, late in life, I have developed my own personal creedo, based on the Enformationism thesis. But I'm too flexible to make it a dogma.
5. "Self-mastery" : Again, a weak point for me. But that weak-will doesn't bother me, due to my normal "indifference" and "passivity".
6. "Passions" : I am, by nature, lacking in passion and motivation. So, "taming the tiger" is not a significant challenge for me. I am mostly apathetic toward the ups & downs of life. But that's not due to following any Praxis of Stoicism. It's just the way I am.
7. "Indifference" : "What? Me worry?"
I suppose my philosophical journey is also focused more on the abstract "nature of being" than on "Reality", in the usual materialistic sense. But it's mostly a bloodless intellectual search for meaning, deficient in passionate pursuit. And that dispassionate quest is lacking any formal Praxis. I was never directly exposed to Hinduism or Buddhism in my youth. And while others of my generation were experiencing the joys of Hippie virtues, I was in southeast Asia "killing the little yellow man". I never personally killed anyone, but I suppose I had the cloaks of killers "laid at my feet". Philosophy was not part of my "being" until I retired from Reality, and had time to spare for Ideal pointless pursuits.
How did you add the "Reveals" to your post? I didn't know it was an option.
Quote :
For Hadot...the means for the philosophical student to achieve the “complete reversal of our usual ways of looking at things” epitomized by the Sage were a series of spiritual exercises. These exercises encompassed all of those practices still associated with philosophical teaching and study: reading, listening, dialogue, inquiry, and research. However, they also included practices deliberately aimed at addressing the student’s larger way of life, and demanding daily or continuous repetition: practices of attention (prosoche), meditations (meletai), memorizations of dogmata, self-mastery (enkrateia), the therapy of the passions, the remembrance of good things, the accomplishment of duties, and the cultivation of indifference towards indifferent things...
Exercise! That require motivation. So, I exercise restraint in exercising.
1. "Repetition" : Sounds like prayer beads, which is not an element of my religious tradition.
2. "Attention" : That may be my weak point, due to a mild case of ADD
3. "Meditation" : Post-military, I went through a meditation phase while attending a super-liberal hippie-ish local Unity Church. I practiced what they called Alpha-Theta meditation, which was monitored by an EEG machine. I was able to peg the needle, but no big deal. I also tried a sensory-deprivation float tank. In the dark dank tank, my ADD mind never shut-down, but attended to peripheral sensations, such as water dripping. Bottom line : I didn't find the meditative state much different from my normal passionless introverted state of mind.
4. "Dogmata" : I left behind the "dogmas " of my fundamentalist raising. And have never found any new religious doctrines to replace them. I suppose you could say that, late in life, I have developed my own personal creedo, based on the Enformationism thesis. But I'm too flexible to make it a dogma.
5. "Self-mastery" : Again, a weak point for me. But that weak-will doesn't bother me, due to my normal "indifference" and "passivity".
6. "Passions" : I am, by nature, lacking in passion and motivation. So, "taming the tiger" is not a significant challenge for me. I am mostly apathetic toward the ups & downs of life. But that's not due to following any Praxis of Stoicism. It's just the way I am.
7. "Indifference" : "What? Me worry?"
Re: TPF : Consciousness Studies
philosophy in the classical sense was a matter of practice — Wayfarer
Most religions are also grounded on Praxis (Works), especially repetitive activities. For example, Islam's primary communal practice is synchronized prayer. Praxis may be the tie that binds individuals into social organisms. Christianity is unusual (in theory), due to its focus on private internal intellectual Faith, instead of public, communal, oxytosin-enhancing, activities. However, some Christians seem to use private prayer as a form of meditation, for self-improvement (e.g. gaining merit), as contrasted with social improvement, or collective bonding (belonging).
As a philosophical loner though, I "belong" to no empathetic & like-minded group. Hence, I am lacking in emotional support to solidify my adherence to an identifying creed. Would some kind of Praxis lead me to emotional or intellectual self-improvement (self-control), apart from the feeling of being one with a group of fellow practitioners (group control)? Can I be saved, philosophically, by cerebral intellectual Faith without physical emotional Works? Just musing!
PS__More seriously, I suppose my Practice of writing down my philosophical thoughts, and subjecting them to criticism, is a form of Praxis. Could that lead me to "modify my hypothesis to fit reality", or to "understand the world differently"?
What is the difference between praxis and practice? :
Practice is what those in the trades (like doctors, engineers, psychologists and musicians) do to modify their hypothesis to fit reality. More seriously: Praxis is usually used in the Hegelian and Marxist sense meaning action that works to change society.
https://www.quora.com/In-an-academic-co ... d-practice
What is the difference between Zen meditation and transcendental meditation? :
Mantra meditation and Zen meditation both differ from mindfulness. Mantra meditation, which encompasses transcendental meditation, involves repeating a phrase throughout the meditation practice. Zen meditation originates from Zen Buddhism and has the purpose of helping practitioners understand the world differently.
https://positivepsychology.com/differen ... editation/
Most religions are also grounded on Praxis (Works), especially repetitive activities. For example, Islam's primary communal practice is synchronized prayer. Praxis may be the tie that binds individuals into social organisms. Christianity is unusual (in theory), due to its focus on private internal intellectual Faith, instead of public, communal, oxytosin-enhancing, activities. However, some Christians seem to use private prayer as a form of meditation, for self-improvement (e.g. gaining merit), as contrasted with social improvement, or collective bonding (belonging).
As a philosophical loner though, I "belong" to no empathetic & like-minded group. Hence, I am lacking in emotional support to solidify my adherence to an identifying creed. Would some kind of Praxis lead me to emotional or intellectual self-improvement (self-control), apart from the feeling of being one with a group of fellow practitioners (group control)? Can I be saved, philosophically, by cerebral intellectual Faith without physical emotional Works? Just musing!
PS__More seriously, I suppose my Practice of writing down my philosophical thoughts, and subjecting them to criticism, is a form of Praxis. Could that lead me to "modify my hypothesis to fit reality", or to "understand the world differently"?
What is the difference between praxis and practice? :
Practice is what those in the trades (like doctors, engineers, psychologists and musicians) do to modify their hypothesis to fit reality. More seriously: Praxis is usually used in the Hegelian and Marxist sense meaning action that works to change society.
https://www.quora.com/In-an-academic-co ... d-practice
What is the difference between Zen meditation and transcendental meditation? :
Mantra meditation and Zen meditation both differ from mindfulness. Mantra meditation, which encompasses transcendental meditation, involves repeating a phrase throughout the meditation practice. Zen meditation originates from Zen Buddhism and has the purpose of helping practitioners understand the world differently.
https://positivepsychology.com/differen ... editation/
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