TPF : Is Consciousness an Illusion?

[Gnomon]

Is Consciousness an Illusion?
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... llusion/p1

In 2017, philosopher Thomas Nagel wrote a review of Daniel Dennett's new book --- From Bacteria to Bach and Back :The Evolution of Minds. As the title suggests, he thinks that the 18th century musical genius, Johann Sebastian Bach, was a direct descendant of ancient single-cell bacteria. This book was his attempt to show, in great detail, how that improbable inheritance came about, via prolonged incremental evolution, instead of by instantaneous divine ensoulment. Even more astonishing is that he sets-out to prove that your personal feeling of enjoyment (or not) of the Brandenburg Concerto is also a construct of blind, mindless chemical reactions. That's a big project for any lab-less philosopher, but if anyone could do it, Dennett had the background and credentials for the task.

Shortly after its publication though, The New York Review of Books issued an article by well-known philosopher Thomas Nagel. Therein, he said "I shall explain eventually why I think the overall project cannot succeed, but first let me set out the argument, which contains much that is true and insightful". Many on this forum will readily agree with Dennett's materialistic worldview, but my personal view is closer to that of Nagel, as expressed in this article, and in his 2012 book Mind & Cosmos : Why the Materialist Neo-Darwinian Conception of Nature is Almost Certainly False.

So, is Human Consciousness a form of Matter? If so, what is the missing link? Whence the Illusion?
Or, is Human Awareness perhaps a form of immaterial, but knowable, Information?
Questions? Comments?

Is Consciousness an Illusion? : https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2017/0 ... evolution/
My Review of Nagel's Review : http://bothandblog6.enformationism.info/page65.html
Wiki : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_Bact ... h_and_Back
Book : https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01HDSU2KY/re ... TF8&btkr=1
Mind & Cosmos : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_and_Cosmos
Nagel is Not Crazy : https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/arts ... ter-nation

[Gnomon]

What's the distinction between the illusion of consciousness and consciousness? — Mijin

Good question! If the illusion of consciousness is what you experience as awareness, then for you it's your window to reality. But apparently, Dennett is simply saying that Consciousness is not a material substance, hence not a real thing, therefore not important. The reality for him is objective neurons twinkling, and the subjective experience is a deception. Perhaps, when Dennett sees a beautiful woman, he ignores that illusion, and focuses on those lovely abstract neuronal patterns.

For me though, Consciousness is the function (the purpose) of the brain. Hence, it's the gateway to my personal reality. I'm not aware of my own neurons --- only of the imaginary patterns they form in my Cartesian Theater. When you go to a movie, do you look at the "real" projector (hardware) or at the illusory fleeting images on the screen (function; purpose)?

It seems that, in his attempts to deny the experiencing Cartesian Soul, Dennett says that only the sensing physical Body is real, and worth talking about. But what good is objective Reality, if you are not subjectively aware of it? Would you call his materialistic worldview a case of "misplaced emphasis"?

Function : 1. an activity or purpose natural to or intended for a person or thing.

Consciousness : Consciousness refers to your individual awareness of your unique thoughts, memories, feelings, sensations, and environments. Essentially, your consciousness is your awareness of yourself and the world around you. This awareness is subjective and unique to you.

Cartesian Theater : Cartesian theater" is a derisive term coined by philosopher and cognitive scientist Daniel Dennett to refer pointedly to a defining aspect of what he calls Cartesian materialism, which he considers to be the often unacknowledged remnants of Cartesian dualism in modern materialist theories of the mind.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartesian_theater

PS__I think Hoffman has a more useful interpretation of Dennett's "illusion" :
http://bothandblog6.enformationism.info/page21.html

[Gnomon]

Consciousness is the human being's ability to talk to himself about himself, tell his own story and draw long-term conclusions, from where he acquires the ability to promise things. — Rafaella Leon

Apparently, Dennett doesn't value that mushy sentimental illusion we call "the Self", simply because it doesn't "matter", literally.

Matter :
1. physical substance in general, as distinct from mind and spirit; .
2. be of importance; have significance.

Significance :
1. the quality of being worthy of attention; importance.

[Gnomon]

Neither is correct. These ideas are based on Cartesian Dualism, whereby the world is divided into exactly two realms, the physical and the mental, the material and the immaterial. But that's a mistake. We live in one world. — Daemon

Yes. For discussions of "Consciousness", I prefer Spinoza's Substance Monism, in which the "universal substance" is Generic (all-inclusive) Information, as defined below.

What is Information? : http://bothandblog4.enformationism.info/page26.html

Substance Monism : The most distinctive aspect of Spinoza's system is his substance monism; that is, his claim that one infinite substance—God or Nature—is the only substance that exists.
https://iep.utm.edu/spinoz-m/

Attributes of Substance : Early in The Ethics Spinoza argues that there is only one Substance, which is absolutely infinite, self-caused, and eternal. Substance causes an infinite number of attributes (the intellect perceiving an abstract concept or essence) and modes (things following from attributes and modes).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinozism

Substance : "In European thought the notion of substance received different interpretations : ... concrete individual ... single foundation ... ontological reality ... logical subject ... spiritual principle ... material substratum ... self-identical essence ... law of change ... "
https://simplyphilosophy.org/study/subs ... efinition/
Note : Generic Information is all of the above.

[Gnomon]

I don't know what consciousness is either, but calling it an illusion doesn't do much for me. — Bitter Crank

Yes. Dennett's term of derision (illusion) seems to be an indirect dismissal of Consciousness, because of its association with the religious term "Soul". Illusions are the stuff of Magic and Delusion. So, I prefer to use a more modern term to describe the immaterial-but-effective functions of the human brain : "Information". The brain is an Information Processor, and one of its outputs is Awareness of both the internal milieu and the external environment.

Is Consciousness an Illusion? : http://bothandblog6.enformationism.info/page66.html

[Gnomon]

The notion of consciousness is, at its heart, claiming there's a difference between mental images and camera-images but we know there's none. Ergo, consciousness - the purported difference in identicals - can't be real. Consciousness is an illusion. . . .
what we call awareness is simply the formation of mental images in our minds, and that's precisely what happens inside a camera. — TheMadFool

There is one significant difference between forming images on a light-sensitive Surface, and forming images in a meaning-sensitive Mind. The mental Image, or Illusion, has personal Meaning & Significance & Aboutness & Awareness. Imaging is not awareness; but Imagination is.

Note 1 -- The light-focusing optics of a camera are called "objectives". Perhaps, that's because the camera has no "subjective" perspective.
Note 2 -- The camera metaphor is an abstraction from human vision, but it abstracts-out the Knowing of a mind. The map is not the terrain.

[Gnomon]

An amoeba also has sensory abilities, does that mean it is conscious because of that? — Rafaella Leon

I've been watching some videos on YouTube : Journey to the MicroCosmos. And the minuscule single-cell organisms, swimming freely and nosing about, seem to have purposeful behavior. So, they are "animals" by definition. But what goes-on in their brainless blobs -- what it's like to be an amoeba -- is a moot question, until we are able to communicate with them. So, until then, I would attribute only a minuscule amount of Consciousness.

[Gnomon]

It's just if consciousness can be an illusion, why not the external world? — Marchesk

The Matrix movies illustrate that philosophical quandary : how can we distinguish between the illusion and reality? Maybe that's the job of empirical Science, which is an extension of the role of Philosophy.

Cypher : "You know, I know this steak doesn't exist. I know that when I put it in my mouth, the Matrix is telling my brain that it is juicy and delicious".