Purpose: what is it, where does it come from?
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... ent/912847
Purpose is a property of life and becomes a concept when intelligent minds recognize it. — Vera Mont
Right on! All living organisms have an innate driving purpose : to stay alive. But philosophical discussions of Purpose may be traced back to Theological notions that each moral agent of the world has a unique role to play in the epic of creation. In Genesis, the bit-part role of pre-enlightenment Adam & Eve was simply to be caretakers in the garden, as the animals with hands. No need for reasoning or insight, or concepts such as Good vs Evil.
Over time though, theology became more complex and sophisticated, and the search for an individual's purpose --- the one supposedly assigned by God --- became more important to one's post-life destiny. Each actor's ultimate payoff or punishment depends on discovering the role they were "meant" to play in God's dramaturgy. Some search the inscrutable scriptures for clues, while others look into their own empathetic hearts. But failure to find the divinely assigned role still seems to provoke anxiety in those who are not content with their evolutionary niche as animals, but aspire to play the role of angels on God's golden stage.
Modern science seems to be content with the most basic purposes of survival & propagation of genes. Yet, some philosophers still seem to feel that each of us needs some higher goal than just eat, drink, and f*ck. Do we have assigned roles in the drama of life --- by God or Nature --- or do we choose our own personas to suit personal talents & needs? Shakespeare pithily captured the secular version of the purpose quandary. Does our minor role on the world stage have any importance in the script of destiny? Is Purpose merely a property of natural instincts, or a higher Concept for the amusement of the gods?
*1. Anxious actors in the play of Life & Death & Destiny:
All the world’s a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/ ... ds-a-stage
TPF : Purpose
Re: TPF : Purpose
The questions here are, then, what is purpose (in itself), where does it come from, what is its ground? Or, what exactly gives it all meaning, makes it all worthwhile? . . . .
My own answer, briefly, is that the lights come on when mind is. No mind no world. — tim wood
I'm a latecomer to this thread. But I just read an article in Scientific American magazine, that discusses "an infant's aha! moment" when they realize they can influence the world. The authors ran experiments with babies to see "when the lights come on", as you put it. The point (purpose) of the investigation was to learn "about the origins of agency". They concluded that "the birth of agency is a dynamic, self-organizing process". Humans are not born with fully developed minds. At first, we are at the mercy of The World, but eventually we can become causal Actors in the non-self world.
Which seems to imply that the desire for control of the outside world is an inborn motivation --- want or need for food, warmth, novelty, etc --- that later emerges as a sense of agency early in development of the body and brain. At first, the baby moves its limbs randomly, without any focused purpose. But eventually, the child discovers that some of those movements can cause changes in the environment. In the experiment, a string tied to the baby's toe and attached to a crib-toy, would, seemingly accidentally, cause the toy to move. At first, the baby does not make the "connection" between her own wiggling and the surprising interesting waving of the toy. But, after the aha! moment of insight --- I did that --- "spontaneous movements become purposeful action". "As our model proposes, the experience of agency emerges only when an organism . . . senses it is coupled to its environment". Yet, in order to become a causal agent, one must learn to differentiate Self from World.
My interpretation of this psychological experiment is that Purpose begins as a Feeling of Desire, that is enhanced by the feeling of Power over the environment (agency). Then, eventually that vague feeling becomes transformed into a verbal concept : if I do this, then the result will satisfy my desire for (fill-in the blank). So, Purpose is both the Desire and the Reason for Doing. But, is that desire directed by an internal agency (self-caused), or merely one link in a long chain of causes & effects? Most people, post infancy, take their own agency for granted. But ornery philosophers question everything, including the questioner.
The article notes that, "historically, the entire issue of purpose and agency in living things --- and, dare one say, 'free will' --- has been clouded in philosophical debate and controversy". Hence, the TPF thread on FreeWill and Determinism. So, we can either "take the bit in the teeth" --- as a determined agent of purpose, or just lay back and let physics take its course. Purposeful behavior is for Agents of Action, not for the wishy-washy flotsam of the world. Purpose is the feeling of being in control. And getting intended results gives meaning to the sense of Agency.
My own answer, briefly, is that the lights come on when mind is. No mind no world. — tim wood
I'm a latecomer to this thread. But I just read an article in Scientific American magazine, that discusses "an infant's aha! moment" when they realize they can influence the world. The authors ran experiments with babies to see "when the lights come on", as you put it. The point (purpose) of the investigation was to learn "about the origins of agency". They concluded that "the birth of agency is a dynamic, self-organizing process". Humans are not born with fully developed minds. At first, we are at the mercy of The World, but eventually we can become causal Actors in the non-self world.
Which seems to imply that the desire for control of the outside world is an inborn motivation --- want or need for food, warmth, novelty, etc --- that later emerges as a sense of agency early in development of the body and brain. At first, the baby moves its limbs randomly, without any focused purpose. But eventually, the child discovers that some of those movements can cause changes in the environment. In the experiment, a string tied to the baby's toe and attached to a crib-toy, would, seemingly accidentally, cause the toy to move. At first, the baby does not make the "connection" between her own wiggling and the surprising interesting waving of the toy. But, after the aha! moment of insight --- I did that --- "spontaneous movements become purposeful action". "As our model proposes, the experience of agency emerges only when an organism . . . senses it is coupled to its environment". Yet, in order to become a causal agent, one must learn to differentiate Self from World.
My interpretation of this psychological experiment is that Purpose begins as a Feeling of Desire, that is enhanced by the feeling of Power over the environment (agency). Then, eventually that vague feeling becomes transformed into a verbal concept : if I do this, then the result will satisfy my desire for (fill-in the blank). So, Purpose is both the Desire and the Reason for Doing. But, is that desire directed by an internal agency (self-caused), or merely one link in a long chain of causes & effects? Most people, post infancy, take their own agency for granted. But ornery philosophers question everything, including the questioner.
The article notes that, "historically, the entire issue of purpose and agency in living things --- and, dare one say, 'free will' --- has been clouded in philosophical debate and controversy". Hence, the TPF thread on FreeWill and Determinism. So, we can either "take the bit in the teeth" --- as a determined agent of purpose, or just lay back and let physics take its course. Purposeful behavior is for Agents of Action, not for the wishy-washy flotsam of the world. Purpose is the feeling of being in control. And getting intended results gives meaning to the sense of Agency.
Re: TPF : Purpose
Hard to see how any would not ultimately be "directed by an internal agency." And here implied a development, hierarchy, and a taxonomy of purpose, starting with the infant(ile), through to adult. But I wonder if there is a sub-taxonomy either within the adult or transcending or otherwise moving beyond adult, and what the names of those would be. — tim wood
Yes. Most humans seem to take their own personal agency for granted. Since they get their desired results from voluntary actions, they feel like they can control some aspects of the non-self world. But some philosophers see that what-we-call-agency might be just a continuation of physical causation that began in the Big Bang.
So, we are now dealing with a taxonomy of at least two classes of causes : Physical and Meta-physical (mental). Unless we define the Mind as a divinely endowed spiritual Soul, the emergence of metal "abilities", such as Agency, can be viewed as continuous with the universal chain of Causation. Consequently, a secular philosophical "taxonomy of purpose" could combine involuntary external physical Causation with voluntary internal meta-physical Intention, to conclude with some form of Compatibilism. In that case, what we call FreeWill might be a "sub-taxonomy" of Universal Causation, that is expressed in scientific terms as Thermodynamics (positive/negative energy). But in a philosophical sense, it might be classified as Moral Choice (good/evil consequences).
Daniel Dennett, in his book Freedom Evolves, says "Human freedom is not an illusion; it is an objective phenomenon, distinct from all other biological conditions and found in only one species - us". But other, more Libertarian thinkers, have scorned that his watered-down freedom is "not an ability worth having". However, Freewill-within-Determinism Compatibilism is compatible with my own BothAnd worldview. Does that compromise work for you?
Yes. Most humans seem to take their own personal agency for granted. Since they get their desired results from voluntary actions, they feel like they can control some aspects of the non-self world. But some philosophers see that what-we-call-agency might be just a continuation of physical causation that began in the Big Bang.
So, we are now dealing with a taxonomy of at least two classes of causes : Physical and Meta-physical (mental). Unless we define the Mind as a divinely endowed spiritual Soul, the emergence of metal "abilities", such as Agency, can be viewed as continuous with the universal chain of Causation. Consequently, a secular philosophical "taxonomy of purpose" could combine involuntary external physical Causation with voluntary internal meta-physical Intention, to conclude with some form of Compatibilism. In that case, what we call FreeWill might be a "sub-taxonomy" of Universal Causation, that is expressed in scientific terms as Thermodynamics (positive/negative energy). But in a philosophical sense, it might be classified as Moral Choice (good/evil consequences).
Daniel Dennett, in his book Freedom Evolves, says "Human freedom is not an illusion; it is an objective phenomenon, distinct from all other biological conditions and found in only one species - us". But other, more Libertarian thinkers, have scorned that his watered-down freedom is "not an ability worth having". However, Freewill-within-Determinism Compatibilism is compatible with my own BothAnd worldview. Does that compromise work for you?
Re: TPF : Purpose
So it seems to me - not being versed in the details of Determinism - that among the first things a determinist must make clear is what, exactly, it means. — tim wood
I too, haven't been concerned enough to make a detailed study of the roots of philosophical Determinism, perhaps in ancient Greece. But, I assume its modern form could be traced back to the secular Enlightenment (materialism), which broke away from medieval religious Theology (spiritualism). And which usually viewed the rational human mind as evidence for a dualism of supernatural soul within a natural body. In reaction, Science -- the philosophy of the mundane world -- became a monism of Materialism.
However, if you don't view the Mind as supernatural, there's no need for a continuous chain of causation to ward-off any spiritual incursions. So, for me, the Mind is merely the natural Function*1 of the brain. In animals that function is mostly control over the body & physical world. But, in humans a new function emerged : to use imagination (metaphors ; words) to assist in control over the complex sapiens social environment. Over time, that ability to create mental models of the world, evolved into the mental function we call Reasoning (logic + math) : constructing imaginary & artificial scenarios to predict what effect our choices will have on the physical & social systems we are immersed in.
Therefore, one important function of Mind is to refine abstract ideas into purposeful, goal-oriented, intentional behavior. So Purpose is an imaginary hand, with which to reach out and control the outside world. And it "comes from" a long long chain of physical causation which has eventually undergone a phase transition into meta-physical (imaginary) power to cause changes in the world. All self-moving animals have some degree of mental intentional power, to find food & avoid danger. In some cases, the intentional behaviors affect other Minds (social animals), and in other situations (technological animals) the changes affect the physical world : as in apes cracking nuts, and the Panama Canal moving mountains story.
*1. Function : in math a function is the relation between inputs (X & Y) and outputs (Z). In mind, a function is the job or work of the coordinated neural network : what it does, what it produces : i.e. Ideas -- imaginary models of reality.
"To resolve this issue, Aristotle asks what the ergon (“function”, “task”, “work”) of a human being is, and argues that it consists in activity of the rational part of the soul in accordance with virtue "
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/aristotle-ethics/
I too, haven't been concerned enough to make a detailed study of the roots of philosophical Determinism, perhaps in ancient Greece. But, I assume its modern form could be traced back to the secular Enlightenment (materialism), which broke away from medieval religious Theology (spiritualism). And which usually viewed the rational human mind as evidence for a dualism of supernatural soul within a natural body. In reaction, Science -- the philosophy of the mundane world -- became a monism of Materialism.
However, if you don't view the Mind as supernatural, there's no need for a continuous chain of causation to ward-off any spiritual incursions. So, for me, the Mind is merely the natural Function*1 of the brain. In animals that function is mostly control over the body & physical world. But, in humans a new function emerged : to use imagination (metaphors ; words) to assist in control over the complex sapiens social environment. Over time, that ability to create mental models of the world, evolved into the mental function we call Reasoning (logic + math) : constructing imaginary & artificial scenarios to predict what effect our choices will have on the physical & social systems we are immersed in.
Therefore, one important function of Mind is to refine abstract ideas into purposeful, goal-oriented, intentional behavior. So Purpose is an imaginary hand, with which to reach out and control the outside world. And it "comes from" a long long chain of physical causation which has eventually undergone a phase transition into meta-physical (imaginary) power to cause changes in the world. All self-moving animals have some degree of mental intentional power, to find food & avoid danger. In some cases, the intentional behaviors affect other Minds (social animals), and in other situations (technological animals) the changes affect the physical world : as in apes cracking nuts, and the Panama Canal moving mountains story.
*1. Function : in math a function is the relation between inputs (X & Y) and outputs (Z). In mind, a function is the job or work of the coordinated neural network : what it does, what it produces : i.e. Ideas -- imaginary models of reality.
"To resolve this issue, Aristotle asks what the ergon (“function”, “task”, “work”) of a human being is, and argues that it consists in activity of the rational part of the soul in accordance with virtue "
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/aristotle-ethics/
Re: TPF : Purpose
Purpose: what is it, where does it come from?
Can the Universe be ordered without being animated by purpose? Do you see the difference? Purpose and reason seem to suggest A purpose and A reason. That is , a realism in which things works according to a certain scheme , a particular content of meaning. By contrast , it could be that the universe is ordered in the sense that it changes with respect to itself in a way that is profoundly intimate. What makes this unfolding ordered is not an assigned purpose, but the lack of arbitrary content violently polarizing its movement in one direction or another. — Joshs
Humans, more than most animals, are "animated by purpose". But the universe, as a whole system, is structured by Logic. That mathematical Logic is arithmetical, in that various threads of causation always add-up to a single global effect. Hence, the world may have an "assigned" (teleological) Purpose, but no-one knows what that final summation will be. Yet, humans, animated by their own motives, infer and impute various "schemes" to the world, to the World Mind.
Since we live in the middle of the Cosmic "life-span", the beginning and end are remote and vague. And, since causation interacts with itself --- action & reaction --- the "unfolding" can seem to be random & chaotic. So, humans like to impose their own purposes in order to "polarize" its path in their chosen direction. Nevertheless, Evolution --- to unroll like a scroll --- gradually reveals that which was inscrutable until actualized. And many evolutionists interpret that scroll as a story moving toward a denoument or coda. Some have proposed that rational homo sapiens must be the acme of evolution. Others, propose that logical artificial entities will eventually inherit the Earth. Presumably, their programming God looks like a robot.
Like most mysteries though, The End is obscured by misdirection, and the Purpose will only be revealed when all threads are tied-up in the final scene. Meanwhile, we will have to be content with incompletely informed prognostication ; which is "difficult, especially if it's about the future".
Can the Universe be ordered without being animated by purpose? Do you see the difference? Purpose and reason seem to suggest A purpose and A reason. That is , a realism in which things works according to a certain scheme , a particular content of meaning. By contrast , it could be that the universe is ordered in the sense that it changes with respect to itself in a way that is profoundly intimate. What makes this unfolding ordered is not an assigned purpose, but the lack of arbitrary content violently polarizing its movement in one direction or another. — Joshs
Humans, more than most animals, are "animated by purpose". But the universe, as a whole system, is structured by Logic. That mathematical Logic is arithmetical, in that various threads of causation always add-up to a single global effect. Hence, the world may have an "assigned" (teleological) Purpose, but no-one knows what that final summation will be. Yet, humans, animated by their own motives, infer and impute various "schemes" to the world, to the World Mind.
Since we live in the middle of the Cosmic "life-span", the beginning and end are remote and vague. And, since causation interacts with itself --- action & reaction --- the "unfolding" can seem to be random & chaotic. So, humans like to impose their own purposes in order to "polarize" its path in their chosen direction. Nevertheless, Evolution --- to unroll like a scroll --- gradually reveals that which was inscrutable until actualized. And many evolutionists interpret that scroll as a story moving toward a denoument or coda. Some have proposed that rational homo sapiens must be the acme of evolution. Others, propose that logical artificial entities will eventually inherit the Earth. Presumably, their programming God looks like a robot.
Like most mysteries though, The End is obscured by misdirection, and the Purpose will only be revealed when all threads are tied-up in the final scene. Meanwhile, we will have to be content with incompletely informed prognostication ; which is "difficult, especially if it's about the future".
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