TPF : Incomplete Nature

[Gnomon]

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussi ... g-group/p1

I have a feeling this is going to end up being neo-Kantian, but I'm happier with it than the last book I read on this topic, which was an evolutionary angle on the emergence of consciousness. — frank

I don't know about "Neo-Kantian", but I now know something about "Aboutness". :joke:

The Power of Absence : In order to establish the plausibility of metaphysical causality, Deacon had to weed-out unwarranted assumptions of both physicalism and materialism.
http://bothandblog4.enformationism.info/page17.html

[Gnomon]

or just metaphysical relation or metaphysical transcendence is a very significant part of trying to understand much of philosophy. — magritte


The Metaphysics of Causation : What must a world be like, to host causal relations?
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/caus ... taphysics/

[Gnomon]

But arent those years of hyper-materialism also how we arrived at the concepts of say, intention, in the first place? — frank

No. Intention as the cause of goal-oriented human behavior was defined long before the anti-religious hyper-materialism emerged to disentangle Science from Catholic Hegemony.

Note -- Daniel Dennett was talking about "aboutness" when he coined the concept of "intentional stance"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intentional_stance

Intention : In philosophy, intentionality is the power of minds and mental states to be about, to represent, or to stand for, things, properties and states of affairs.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/intentionality/

Intention : For Aristotle, orexis or desire is the cause of all animal motion, including human motion. Prohairesis is a deliberate desire for the means to an end. It is a principle of action peculiar to mature human beings capable of deliberating, as it is the intention which is the result of deliberation.
https://dlib.bc.edu/islandora/object/bc-ir%3A101290

[Gnomon]

Specifically so he could dispose of the inconvenient truth of intentionality. He fails. See two current threads on Dennett. — Wayfarer

Yes. He was like those who deny the existence of immaterial Minds, even as they use their abstract reasoning to produce imaginary reasons why there is no such thing as Consciousness or Soul. But he made a good point about "aboutness".


Dennett constantly speaks of the "aboutness" of intentionality
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intentional_stance

[Gnomon]

but it does not come to terms with what intentionality is. — Wayfarer

After all his astute reasoning on "Consciousness", Dennett concluded that it is an "introspective illusion". But even "illusions" are mental states, and "introspection" has no visual organ.

Apparently, "Intention" is also illusory. I agree with most of his reasoning, except for his vain attempt to remain within the margins of Materialism, while dealing with ethereal Mental Abstractions. In his favor though, he tries to avoid the extreme stance of Reductive Materialism, which denies the reality of all Qualia --- the "stuff" that makes life worth living.

Materialist philosophers are all over the map in their contortions around the ancient notion of a Conscious Soul. Since, on principle, they eliminate an immaterial Soul as a possible candidate for the seat of Consciousness and Intention, they are still waiting for empirical science to find a viable alternative. In my own thesis, I propose an alternative that is real but not physical. In deference to materialist sensibilities, I call it "the Self", but define it in terms of Universal Information. It performs the same function as a "common sense" Soul, but naturally emerges instead of being divinely added to a body. It's a mental Self-Image that serves as the perspective point for all behaviors --- including the Intentional Stance.



Human consciousness is the same, says Dennett. "It's the brain's 'user illusion' of itself,"

Eliminative Materialism : In the context of materialist understandings of psychology, eliminativism stands in opposition to reductive materialism which argues that mental states as conventionally understood do exist, and that they directly correspond to the physical state of the nervous system.An intermediate position is revisionary materialism, which will often argue that the mental state in question will prove to be somewhat reducible to physical phenomena—with some changes needed to the common sense concept.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliminative_materialism

[Gnomon]

What point is Deacon trying to make in regard to "absentials"? — apokrisis


Power of Absence : And I view his “Absence” as a religiously neutral term for what used to be known as incorporeal “Spirit”.
http://bothandblog4.enformationism.info/page17.html

[Gnomon]

Could one of you, or anybody, explain why zero was a "troublesome" concept to integrate into science? Was the issue forced by the success of math in making predictions? — frank


Zero: The Biography of a Dangerous Idea : https://www.amazon.com/s?k=zero&i=strip ... nb_sb_noss

[Gnomon]

End-directed forms of causality, or purpose, is clearly an aspect of life and consciousness. The term "abstential" is supposed to pick out the object of purposeful behavior. — frank

Yes. That seems to be the meaning of Deacon's term "Absence" ; the pull of the future, so to speak. Apparently, only humans can imagine a non-existent future state, and then work to make it real. So the purpose of Purpose is to convert Absence (lack, want) into Presence (possession, fulfillment).

[Gnomon]

I dont know if it diminishes his point, but absence is an aspect of a lot of things, such as a valley or a positive charge which results from atoms that are missing some of the electrons they would need to be neutral. True? — frank

Yes. Deacon provides many illustrations of meaningful "Absence" in the world. Our understanding of the number "Zero" was long delayed, because the notion of functional absence was counter-intuitive. Now, we take it for granted that an empty orbit in an atom can have a causal effect on other atoms. We are somewhat comfortable with the idea that Negative Space can be attractive, and have positive effects. In many situations, that-which-does-not-exist in a physical sense, still has Potential, in a metaphysical sense. In Taoism, "Wu" (emptiness) is functional Potential.

Incomplete Nature : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incomplete_Nature

What is Wu? : "The thirty spokes unite in the one nave; but it is on the empty space (for the axle), that the use of the wheel depends. Clay is fashioned into vessels; but it is on their empty hollowness, that their use depends. The door and windows are cut out (from the walls) to form an apartment; but it is on the empty space (within), that its use depends. Therefore, what has a (positive) existence serves for profitable adaptation, and what has not that for (actual) usefulness."
https://www.taopage.org/emptiness.html

Functional : of or having a special activity, purpose, or task; relating to the way in which something works or operates.

[Gnomon]

Functionality is contextual only to what we can see and perhaps that could open things up for purpose in things we can't see. — magritte

Yes. Humans can imagine functions for things unseen. That is why we create new tools for purposes that are not yet doable.

Tools : A tool is an object used to extend the ability of an individual to modify features of the surrounding environment. Although many animals use simple tools, only human beings, whose use of stone tools dates back hundreds of millennia, have been observed using tools to make other tools.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tool